the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
| 18 Sep 2024
Theoretical Framework for Measuring Cloud Effective Supersaturation Fluctuations with an Advanced Optical System
Abstract. Supersaturation is crucial in cloud physics, determining aerosol activation and influencing cloud droplet size distributions, yet its measurement remains challenging and poorly constrained. This study proposes a theoretical framework to simultaneously observe critical activation diameter and hygroscopicity of activated aerosols through direct measurements of scattering and water induced scattering enhancement of interstitial and activated aerosols, enabling effective supersaturation measurements. Advanced optical systems based on this framework allows minute- to second-level effective supersaturation measurements, capturing fluctuations vital to cloud microphysics. Although currently limited to clouds with supersaturations below ~ 0.2 % due to small scattering signals from sub-100 nm aerosols, advancements in optical sensors could extend its applicability. Its suitability for long-term measurements allows for climatological studies of fogs and mountain clouds. When equipped with aerial vehicles, the system could also measure aloft clouds. Therefore, the proposed theory serving a valuable way for both short-term and long-term cloud microphysics and aerosol-cloud interaction studies.
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Notice on discussion status
The requested preprint has a corresponding peer-reviewed final revised paper. You are encouraged to refer to the final revised version.
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Preprint
(935 KB)
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Supplement
(434 KB)
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The requested preprint has a corresponding peer-reviewed final revised paper. You are encouraged to refer to the final revised version.
- Preprint
(935 KB) - Metadata XML
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Supplement
(434 KB) - BibTeX
- EndNote
- Final revised paper
Journal article(s) based on this preprint
Interactive discussion
Status: closed
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-2698', Anonymous Referee #1, 10 Oct 2024
The comment was uploaded in the form of a supplement: https://egusphere.copernicus.org/preprints/2024/egusphere-2024-2698/egusphere-2024-2698-RC1-supplement.pdf
- AC2: 'Reply on RC1', Ye Kuang, 08 Nov 2024
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RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-2698', Anonymous Referee #2, 15 Oct 2024
The comment was uploaded in the form of a supplement: https://egusphere.copernicus.org/preprints/2024/egusphere-2024-2698/egusphere-2024-2698-RC2-supplement.pdf
- AC3: 'Reply on RC2', Ye Kuang, 08 Nov 2024
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RC3: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-2698', Anonymous Referee #3, 18 Oct 2024
This paper proposes a method for determining the supersaturation in a fog or cloud. The topic is highly important due to the crucial role played by supersaturation in determining the concentration and shape of the cloud droplet size distribution. The measurement concept seems novel and robust, and is reasonably well explained in the paper. There are a few places that are not clear, which I note below. I’m not sure why this was submitted to ACP instead of AMT, but that’s for the editors to decide regarding appropriateness. I consider the manuscript suitable for publication after the following comments are addressed.
One key question that arises after reading the paper is how the proposed technique can provide information about supersaturation fluctuations versus mean supersaturation. The authors nicely describe the importance of quantifying fluctuations, but then it is not clearly explained later on how this can be accessed. I believe it is related to the sigma value in Equation 2 (see my comment below) but I did not find a discussion of this topic in the paper, except a brief mention in the Discussion (limitation 1). Please provide more discussion of this topic.
Lines 84-85: the statement “estimated from vertical velocity measurements” would be better supported by citing a paper that uses that approach, such as the paper by Cooper 1989 (J. Atmos. Sci.). Also, it would be more correct to state “estimated from vertical velocity and droplet size distribution measurements.”
Lines 117-119: “The κ-Kohler theory tells that if the critical diameter of aerosol activation (𝐷_𝑎) and corresponding aerosol hygroscopicity parameter κ are known, the surrounding supersaturation can be retrieved based on air temperature measurements and by assuming 𝜎_𝑠\a the surface tension of water.” This statement is correct, but it assumes knowledge that is not stated, such as how kappa and the critical diameter are related to each other. Please explain more thoroughly.
Line 126: In describing Equation 2 it is stated that “σ is associated with the slope of the curve near D_a”. Please provide a physical interpretation of what factors contribute sigma. Would it be true that for a monodisperse aerosol, and uniform supersaturation, sigma would be zero?
Lines 134-136: This part of the sentence is not clear and should be revised: “which brings uncertainty in 𝐷𝑎 derivations due to that the maximum activation fraction of aerosols larger than 𝐷𝑎 does not equal to unit although usually very close to (Tao et al., 2018b).”
Figure 3: Include brief discussion in the figure caption to explain the underlying concept of the instrument, at least for panel a. For example, explain the purpose of the drier versus the cooler (for controlling humidity).
Discussion: some discussion of the expected precision versus accuracy, as well as estimated uncertainties should be included.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2024-2698-RC3 - AC1: 'Reply on RC3', Ye Kuang, 08 Nov 2024
Interactive discussion
Status: closed
-
RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-2698', Anonymous Referee #1, 10 Oct 2024
The comment was uploaded in the form of a supplement: https://egusphere.copernicus.org/preprints/2024/egusphere-2024-2698/egusphere-2024-2698-RC1-supplement.pdf
- AC2: 'Reply on RC1', Ye Kuang, 08 Nov 2024
-
RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-2698', Anonymous Referee #2, 15 Oct 2024
The comment was uploaded in the form of a supplement: https://egusphere.copernicus.org/preprints/2024/egusphere-2024-2698/egusphere-2024-2698-RC2-supplement.pdf
- AC3: 'Reply on RC2', Ye Kuang, 08 Nov 2024
-
RC3: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-2698', Anonymous Referee #3, 18 Oct 2024
This paper proposes a method for determining the supersaturation in a fog or cloud. The topic is highly important due to the crucial role played by supersaturation in determining the concentration and shape of the cloud droplet size distribution. The measurement concept seems novel and robust, and is reasonably well explained in the paper. There are a few places that are not clear, which I note below. I’m not sure why this was submitted to ACP instead of AMT, but that’s for the editors to decide regarding appropriateness. I consider the manuscript suitable for publication after the following comments are addressed.
One key question that arises after reading the paper is how the proposed technique can provide information about supersaturation fluctuations versus mean supersaturation. The authors nicely describe the importance of quantifying fluctuations, but then it is not clearly explained later on how this can be accessed. I believe it is related to the sigma value in Equation 2 (see my comment below) but I did not find a discussion of this topic in the paper, except a brief mention in the Discussion (limitation 1). Please provide more discussion of this topic.
Lines 84-85: the statement “estimated from vertical velocity measurements” would be better supported by citing a paper that uses that approach, such as the paper by Cooper 1989 (J. Atmos. Sci.). Also, it would be more correct to state “estimated from vertical velocity and droplet size distribution measurements.”
Lines 117-119: “The κ-Kohler theory tells that if the critical diameter of aerosol activation (𝐷_𝑎) and corresponding aerosol hygroscopicity parameter κ are known, the surrounding supersaturation can be retrieved based on air temperature measurements and by assuming 𝜎_𝑠\a the surface tension of water.” This statement is correct, but it assumes knowledge that is not stated, such as how kappa and the critical diameter are related to each other. Please explain more thoroughly.
Line 126: In describing Equation 2 it is stated that “σ is associated with the slope of the curve near D_a”. Please provide a physical interpretation of what factors contribute sigma. Would it be true that for a monodisperse aerosol, and uniform supersaturation, sigma would be zero?
Lines 134-136: This part of the sentence is not clear and should be revised: “which brings uncertainty in 𝐷𝑎 derivations due to that the maximum activation fraction of aerosols larger than 𝐷𝑎 does not equal to unit although usually very close to (Tao et al., 2018b).”
Figure 3: Include brief discussion in the figure caption to explain the underlying concept of the instrument, at least for panel a. For example, explain the purpose of the drier versus the cooler (for controlling humidity).
Discussion: some discussion of the expected precision versus accuracy, as well as estimated uncertainties should be included.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2024-2698-RC3 - AC1: 'Reply on RC3', Ye Kuang, 08 Nov 2024
Peer review completion
Journal article(s) based on this preprint
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Jiangchuan Tao
Hanbin Xu
Li Liu
Pengfei Liu
Wanyun Xu
Weiqi Xu
Chunsheng Zhao
The requested preprint has a corresponding peer-reviewed final revised paper. You are encouraged to refer to the final revised version.
- Preprint
(935 KB) - Metadata XML
-
Supplement
(434 KB) - BibTeX
- EndNote
- Final revised paper