the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
| 17 Jan 2024
On the predictability of turbulent fluxes from land: PLUMBER2 MIP experimental description and preliminary results
Abstract. Accurate representation of the turbulent exchange of carbon, water, and heat between the land surface and the atmosphere is critical for modelling global energy, water, and carbon cycles, both in future climate projections and weather forecasts. We describe a Model Intercomparison Project (MIP) that compares the surface turbulent heat flux predictions of around 20 different land models provided with in-situ meteorological forcing, evaluated with measured surface fluxes using quality-controlled data from 170 eddy-covariance based flux tower sites.
Several out-of-sample empirical model predictions of site fluxes are used as benchmarks to quantify the degree to which land model performance could improve across a broad range of metrics. The performance discrepancy between empirical and mechanistic model predictions also provides a potential pathway to understand sources of model error. Sites with unusual behaviour, complicated processes, poor data quality or uncommon flux magnitude will be more difficult to predict for both mechanistic and empirical models.
Results suggest that latent heat flux and net ecosystem exchange of CO2 are better predicted by land models than sensible heat flux, which at least conceptually would appear to have fewer physical processes controlling it. Land models that are implemented in Earth System Models also appear to perform notably better than stand-alone ecosystem (including demographic) models, at least in terms of the fluxes examined here.
Flux tower data quality is also explored as an uncertainty source, with the difference between energy-balance corrected versus raw fluxes examined, as well as filtering for low wind speed periods. Land model performance does not appear to improve with energy-balance corrected data, and indeed some results raised questions about whether the correction process itself was appropriate. In both cases results were broadly consistent, with simple out-of-sample empirical models, including linear regression, comfortably outperforming mechanistic land models. The PLUMBER2 approach, and its openly available data, enable precise isolation of the locations and conditions in which model developers can know that a given land model can improve, allowing information pathways and discrete parametrisations in models to be identified and targeted for model development.
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-3084', Anonymous Referee #1, 23 Feb 2024
The manuscript by Abramowitz et al. examines the predictability of energy and carbon fluxes from land by using several empirical models as benchmarks to evaluate land models. Basically, the manuscript is an extended study of Best et al, 2015 (JHM) and Haughton et al, 2018 (GMD). The idea is of course very compelling and challenging. However, I have concerns about the current format of the manuscript.
1) The manuscript focuses too much on describing the PLUMBER2 MIP experiment, but lacks literature reviews of advances in physical understanding of land flux controls, e.g., stomatal conductance controlling latent heat and processes controlling GPP and Res, both of which fundamentally determine NEE.
2) Although the manuscript is quite long (47 unedited pages), no concise scientific or research question is formulated in either the abstract or the introduction. I strongly recommend that the authors reduce the length of the manuscript to at least half of its current length. This study is actually an extended study of Best et al, 2015 (JHM) and Haughton et al. 2018 (GMD). Although the manuscript describes some key differences from previous publications, these differences and improvements do not convince readers the novelty of the current research.
3) The main findings of this “preliminary” research are that LMs perform better at estimating NEE and Qle than Qh, and that online LMs outperform offline LMs and empirical models remarkably outperform LMs (in the abstract). The results are quite surprising to me. I wonder where this result comes from.
4) The abstract should have a clear scientific question.
5) In the introduction section, most of the references cited are from the authors themselves and their own research groups. I believe that there is a lot of literature that is closely related to this research but is overlooked. Again, the scientific question and the aim of the research should be described in the introduction.
6) The methodology section can be largely reduced as most of the information is repeated in previously published work. Please consider moving it (including Table 1) to the Supplementary Information section.
7) In the Results section, I note that all analyses are based on the average of all sites. We know that the partitioning of available energy differs largely across global flux sites. For example, a model error of 10 W/m2 at a wet site and a dry site means a big difference. Will treating the bias at all sites with equal weight affect the calculated metric value? Such difference may have impacts, particularly for PDF plot (Figure 5). In addition, some figures can be combined, e.g. Fig. 1-2 and Fig. 6-7. Such combinations make it easier for authors to follow the story.
8) In the Discussion section, I find that the discussion does not focus on the topic – whether the land fluxes can be predicted or not and their causes and how LMs can be improved to improve the flux prediction performance. I believe that the modelling community would welcome this type of discussion.
9) Lines 230 and 645, it is stated that Qle/Rainfall is greater than 1 at more than 30% of the flux sites. This is quite plausible, as the Budyko framework was not used to assess the water balance at the site level, but at the watershed level, as explained in lines 646-647. However, I wonder whether the exclusion of these sites (Qle/Rainfall > 1) has a significant impact on the main results (Fig. 1-10).
10) If what I understand is correct, the "mean" flux is the sole focus covered in the current manuscript. Inter-annual variability and trend of land fluxes are also anticipated in the modelling community due to the large number of sites with long data (> 10 years).
Although the current manuscript has many significant weaknesses and some of which are due to the complexity of the problem under study, I will be happy to provide a further comprehensive assessment when the authors restructure the manuscript with far fewer pages, informative illustrations and focused scientific questions.
I hope that the authors do not take these comments as negative but rather as a way to improve the quality of the paper.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-3084-RC1 -
AC1: 'Reply to RC1', Gab Abramowitz, 20 Mar 2024
The manuscript by Abramowitz et al. examines the predictability of energy and carbon fluxes from land by using several empirical models as benchmarks to evaluate land models. Basically, the manuscript is an extended study of Best et al, 2015 (JHM) and Haughton et al, 2018 (GMD). The idea is of course very compelling and challenging. However, I have concerns about the current format of the manuscript.
We appreciate the time and effort put into reviewing the paper, and are glad the reviewer found the idea compelling and challenging. We agree with many of the points raised below regarding formatting, and address each in turn.1) The manuscript focuses too much on describing the PLUMBER2 MIP experiment, but lacks literature reviews of advances in physical understanding of land flux controls, e.g., stomatal conductance controlling latent heat and processes controlling GPP and Res, both of which fundamentally determine NEE.
Yes, we could of course add a discussion or literature review of the physical controls on land fluxes, and would be very happy to add that if the editor also agrees this is needed (noting however that it will add to the length of the manuscript). The reason it is not there is because the manuscript is fundamentally not focused on this question - it is about understanding the best approach to evaluate land models using tower data, which methodological choices when doing this could lead to qualitatively different results, and then ultimately how those choices should be made. These choices include metrics, how to create a useful summative indicator, establish model performance expectations before seeing simulations, whether fluxes should be energy balance corrected or not, and other aspects of data quality control. This is as opposed to using this MIP to actually better understand the natural system (also a laudable goal of course, and something that is being investigated in separate pieces of work using this data by others). That this focus was not apparent is a failure on our part, it needs to be much more clearly articulated. We address this issue in more detail in our response to (2) below.The expectation that the aim of this paper is to further our understanding of the physical system is entirely reasonable for Biogeosciences. But we also feel that the focus on how methodological choices in model evaluation - that often appear trivially unimportant and go unquestioned - qualitatively change the nature of scientific inference, is particularly important for the Biogeosciences audience, who use land models for scientific inference regularly.
As suggested, we will shorten the methodology section. However, one of the main roles of this manuscript, as detailed in the title, is to describe and justify the experimental setup, so a considerable amount of detail needs to be dedicated to this, as it does not exist elsewhere. If the reviewer or editor feels that some of this information is superfluous we would indeed be willing to cut it from the manuscript, but to us at least, it’s not clear a priori what should be cut, and we note that no specific suggestions were made. We want to reinforce that the level of detail reflects the reality that a great deal of thought on the part of many people was put into the construction of the many different aspects of this experiment that could qualitatively change the nature of the conclusions. We believe the relevance and importance of this experimental detail will be apparent once the paper is better framed.
2) Although the manuscript is quite long (47 unedited pages), no concise scientific or research question is formulated in either the abstract or the introduction.
We really do agree with this, and believe it is the most important concern raised by both reviewers. We also feel that with the focus of the paper better articulated, the relevance and importance of its considerable methodological detail will become clearer. While the sentence below is far from perfect and will be refined in the final paper, its essence is our research question:Can we create an evaluation methodology / environment that allows us to accurately and reliably quantify the improvement in land model performance that is known to be possible in a wide variety of conditions?
We want to develop an approach that gives us confidence that model evaluation is not partial - not dependent upon a metric or metric group, observational data choice, a particular location or time, subset of processes, etc - that it is the closest we can get to a summative understanding of the inevitable shortcomings of any particular model.
Obviously “understanding of the inevitable shortcomings of any particular model” is detailed, difficult work, and very much specific to that model, but the testing environment where that can be fairly assessed is not.
[2a] I strongly recommend that the authors reduce the length of the manuscript to at least half of its current length.
We feel that with the paper length halved, we could do little more than describe the experimental setup. However, we do agree to shorten the methodology section, and reduce the number of results shown in the main manuscript. We at least plan to remove results shown in Figures 8 and 9, and discuss remaining results in more detail. Reviewer 2 correctly noted that the discussion of some of the results was far too brief, and we feel that (a) better framing, motivation and articulation of the key foci of the paper (b) more detailed discussion of fewer results, and (c) better tying of these results to the conclusions drawn about these foci will make the shorter manuscript more cohesive in a way that its (reduced) length is justified (although not halved).[2b] This study is actually an extended study of Best et al, 2015 (JHM) and Haughton et al. 2018 (GMD). Although the manuscript describes some key differences from previous publications, these differences and improvements do not convince readers the novelty of the current research.
This comment, and the one in (6) below where the reviewer states that “most of the information is repeated in previously published work” clearly speaks to the need for us to better articulate the focus of the paper, as this is simply not true. We do accept that we need to better “convince readers the novelty of the current research”.There are many novel aspects to this work relative to the original PLUMBER experiment that make this work categorically different, and a powerful resource for the community going forward:
- It contains a broad hierarchy of machine learning-based benchmarks that quantify information available to land models about flux prediction, from linear regression to random forest to Long-Short Term Memory models that have their own internal states. This allows us to define benchmark levels of performance that are much stricter than in previous studies and can be reasonably interpreted as a lower-bound estimate of site predictability, individually tailored to each site.
- It includes a much broader range of ecosystems and climate zones, using 170 instead of 20 flux tower sites
- It addresses energy conservation issues in the flux tower data, and can actually draw clear conclusions about the validity of the correction approach used in Fluxnet2015
- It includes an independent suite of metrics, so metrics like mean bias,correlation and standard deviation aren’t double counted (e.g. if RMSE were included)
- Critically, it includes significant work on a summative metric that is independent of the model being benchmarked. This means that the way that a priori expectations of model performance are defined does not require reference to the model being evaluated. It results in categorically different results, as evidenced in the difference between Figures 3 and 4.
- It uses a much broader range of models, including ecologically focused models, which are used by many Biogeosciences readers.
- Instead of only looking at a summative metric, results are explored through the graphical lenses of:
- Budyko framework, which revealed site behavioural characteristics at > 30% of sites that land models are structurally unable to replicate
- Water evaporative fraction and energy evaporative fraction
- Water use efficiency
- Vegetation type
- Site length
This is not a comprehensive list, and none of these were investigated in the original experiment. To address this communication failure we aim to highlight these differences more explicitly and consistently in the revised manuscript, and suggest that perhaps a table contrasting the two experiments might be warranted to help readers less familiar with the differences between them - happy to take advice on that stylistic choice.
3) The main findings of this “preliminary” research are that LMs perform better at estimating NEE and Qle than Qh, and that online LMs outperform offline LMs and empirical models remarkably outperform LMs (in the abstract). The results are quite surprising to me. I wonder where this result comes from.
It is an excellent question, and it is something we hope that this paper motivates the community to explore. It is also not something we can answer here, since the answer is different for each of the participating models, and different in different meteorological conditions, moisture regimes and ecosystems. Reviewer 2 notes that the “difficulty with multi-model, multi-site evaluation exercises is the large amount of potential material that the authors have to boil down and synthesise, and the difficulty of identifying specific conclusions”. This is precisely why this first paper coming from the PLUMBER2 MIP needs to detail the experimental setup and focus on high-level results. It is providing a far more comprehensive and methodologically complete platform (relative to the original PLUMBER experiment) for the community to investigate why empirical models outperform mechanistic models by such a wide margin. Different groups are already preparing separate work that tries to get at specific aspects of this important question, like the wide range of responses to vapour pressure deficit across the model ensemble (in preparation).Indeed by including a much clearer motivation of the methodological decisions made, testing a wide range of different assumptions more explicitly, and making the testing platform public, PLUMBER2 facilitates these kinds of critical analyses in a way that the first PLUMBER experiment could not. It is actively designed for this purpose.
An aside: noting the reviewers comment that “online LMs outperform offline LMs” - we want to be clear that all LM simulations were offline. It is true that those LMs built to be used in a coupled environment performed better, presumably what is being referred to here.
4) The abstract should have a clear scientific question.
Yes, as noted above, we do agree with this. In our case the question is quite fundamentally methodological - about the steps we need to take to ensure model evaluation is a true reflection of the predictive ability of a model (rather than data quality, overfitting, or metric choice). This might well be different to an expectation that we focus on what controls surface fluxes, but it is an important scientific question nonetheless. Please see our response to [2] above where we detail a candidate question for inclusion in the paper and discuss its motivations.5) In the introduction section, most of the references cited are from the authors themselves and their own research groups. I believe that there is a lot of literature that is closely related to this research but is overlooked. Again, the scientific question and the aim of the research should be described in the introduction.
As noted above in our response to [2] and [4], we agree with this and plan to address it.6) The methodology section can be largely reduced as most of the information is repeated in previously published work. Please consider moving it (including Table 1) to the Supplementary Information section.
This is perhaps where a lot of the misunderstanding comes from - we really do not agree that “most of the information is repeated in previously published work”. Both PLUMBER and PLUMBER2 compare mechanistic models with empirical models at flux tower sites, that much is the same, we agree. So perhaps to someone working in a different area, or with different ideas about what mechanistic models represent, they may seem identical. But since the original PLUMBER paper in 2015, many arguments have been made dismissing the results as not representative of the state of mechanistic modelling. A great deal of work addressing these concerns and creating a robust platform to explore these results is embodied in this paper (including more than 8x the number of sites, machine learning benchmark hierarchy and more, as detailed in the list in our response to [2b] above).
The four sections of the methodology - flux tower data, land model simulations, machine learning benchmarks, and analyses - all detail new material that is not included in the papers the reviewer refers to, and do not repeat material from earlier papers.
Table 1 details the models that participated in the experiment, as well as specific information about how each model conducted simulations. This is not described anywhere else, and the group of models is different (literally and qualitatively) to the previously published papers. We would suggest that if there is any interest in the physical understanding of land flux controls, as suggested above, this information is critical, at least in the modelling context.
What we propose to do to resolve this issue is to edit all of these sections to more explicitly state what was done in the original PLUMBER experiment that the reviewer refers to, and highlight why the new approach that is taken in the paper resolves an important shortcoming in the original experiment. We listed many examples of these differences in our response to [2b] above, and further discuss our plan to address this issue there.
7) In the Results section, I note that all analyses are based on the average of all sites. We know that the partitioning of available energy differs largely across global flux sites. For example, a model error of 10 W/m2 at a wet site and a dry site means a big difference. Will treating the bias at all sites with equal weight affect the calculated metric value? Such difference may have impacts, particularly for PDF plot (Figure 5). In addition, some figures can be combined, e.g. Fig. 1-2 and Fig. 6-7. Such combinations make it easier for authors to follow the story.
Only the analyses in Figure 1 and Figure 2 - two out of eleven figures - average results across sites. Figure 6 through to Figure 11 look at the spread of results across different sites, looking at box plots for sites belonging to each vegetation type, evaporative fraction, water use efficiency, or each site’s location on a Budyko curve, for example.Nevertheless, the reviewer raises an excellent point regarding to the potential for unfair weighting between e.g. wet and dry sites, when an absolute error metric is used. This is precisely why in PLUMBER we have moved away from a traditional model intercomparison “evaluation” (comparing error metrics directly) and towards a “benchmarking” approach (comparing a model’s relative performance to a benchmark that is specific to each site). Using benchmarking, the difficulty of prediction at “wet” and “dry” sites (or other differences, e.g. data quality) can be accounted for, and unfair weighting of sites avoided.
In Section 2.3 we state:
“The empirical models we use as benchmarks are also listed in Table 1. As suggested above, these are key to quantifying site predictability, and so setting benchmark levels of performance for LMs that reflect the varying difficulty or complexity of prediction at different sites, unknown issues with data quality at some sites and more broadly understanding the amount of information that LM inputs provide about fluxes.”However we agree that this key benefit of benchmarking could be better introduced earlier in the manuscript.
Once again, this is a paper giving only high-level summative results of 170 separate simulations all completed by 32 different models of somewhere between two and fifty variables, after giving a complete experimental setup description. Examining results at each of the 170 individual sites, or coming to an understanding of a particular model’s likely cause of discrepancies is simply not practical for this paper. More detailed, process-based, specific analyses in additional papers are indeed being prepared by others, as noted above, but we argue, do not fit in this context. Having this paper detail the motivation and methodology of the experiment, and how it addresses criticisms raised about the original PLUMBER experiment, is critical for future work to refer to and have the space remaining to explore process-level investigations in detail.
We have no a priori objection to combining the figures as suggested, but it would mean many full page figures. Reducing figure size would make it very hard to see the detail, and the required font sizes might make much of the material unreadable. Happy to take advice from the editor on what the journal would prefer, but our preference would be to keep the figures at half page or less in size. Please also note that as we detail above, the number of figures is going to be reduced, perhaps resolving this concern anyway…?
8) In the Discussion section, I find that the discussion does not focus on the topic – whether the land fluxes can be predicted or not and their causes and how LMs can be improved to improve the flux prediction performance. I believe that the modelling community would welcome this type of discussion.
Once again, we agree that this is an excellent topic of discussion, and that understanding the reason for this poor performance is very important. It is indeed the kind of discussion we hope that this experiment will engender in the community, and of course, we all want to know the answers to these questions. However, as noted above, the answers are not at all simple, specific to each model, and different in different conditions. The kind of analysis that this requires cannot be part of a paper that also details the considerable nuance in experimental setup that is required to ensure that results of a large model intercomparison like this are reasonable and fair. If this were a study involving one or two models, or just a handful of sites, we would agree that more detailed analysis is needed.
9) Lines 230 and 645, it is stated that Qle/Rainfall is greater than 1 at more than 30% of the flux sites. This is quite plausible, as the Budyko framework was not used to assess the water balance at the site level, but at the watershed level, as explained in lines 646-647. However, I wonder whether the exclusion of these sites (Qle/Rainfall > 1) has a significant impact on the main results (Fig. 1-10).
That information is readily available in Figure 11 already. If it did have a significant impact, there would be a marked difference in the colours above the (horizontal) evaporative fraction = 1 line: blue and green colours would be prevalent above, and red and yellow colours below. This is clearly not the case.We will add text to this section to make this clearer.
10) If what I understand is correct, the "mean" flux is the sole focus covered in the current manuscript. Inter-annual variability and trend of land fluxes are also anticipated in the modelling community due to the large number of sites with long data (> 10 years).
No, only the results in Figures 1, 2, 6 and 7 show results using mean fluxes. The others use the distribution of half hourly flux values in different ways, such as the density of half hourly values (Figure 5), and summative performance at the half hourly timescale in terms of temporal correlation (which includes interannual variability), performance in extremes (5th / 95th percentile difference), discrepancies in standard deviation, density estimate overlap and more.Once again, we completely agree that inter-annual variability and trend would be interesting to examine. If this experiment looked at just a few models, or just a few sites, this kind of additional analysis could be feasible, but the interannual variability or trend in flux of 32 models at 100s of sites could only be cursorily summarised in a single figure. We also note that this is a request to make the paper longer, at the same time as we are being asked to shorten the paper.
[10a] Although the current manuscript has many significant weaknesses and some of which are due to the complexity of the problem under study, I will be happy to provide a further comprehensive assessment when the authors restructure the manuscript with far fewer pages, informative illustrations and focused scientific questions.
While we disagree with several of the suggested changes, particularly the suggestion that the methodology is in essence superfluous, we nevertheless agree that the onus is on us to make this work more relevant to the community, so your further assessment would indeed be welcomed. We suspect the perspective you have provided is very much that of the broader Biogeosciences community, so that making sure we communicate the important findings of this work in a clearer and more concise manner is in everyone’s best interests.I hope that the authors do not take these comments as negative but rather as a way to improve the quality of the paper.
Absolutely! We agree with many of these points raised, and are keen to strengthen the paper accordingly.Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-3084-AC1
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AC1: 'Reply to RC1', Gab Abramowitz, 20 Mar 2024
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RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-3084', Anonymous Referee #2, 26 Feb 2024
This manuscript compares simulations of key fluxes from (mechanistic) land models with those from various empirical models (which importantly are not trained on the same data), using a large dataset of measured fluxes from sites around the world. Results include that the latent heat flux is generally better predicted than the sensible heat flux, with other results concerning the relative performance of different types of LM. There are also interesting indications that the energy closure approach used to adjust the measured fluxes might not be appropriate – though most results were insensitive to this aspect of the data. In general the empirical models outperform the mechanistic models, as in previous studies.
This is a long paper (also with a substantial supplementary section) but despite this in some regards it is primarily setting out an approach that can be used to look at predictability, rather than posing and answering specific scientific questions in this area. (In this it is perhaps more a [long] technical note for Biogeosciences rather than a research article. Or would another journal be more appropriate?)
A common difficulty with multi-model, multi-site evaluation exercises is the large amount of potential material that the authors have to boil down and synthesise, and the difficulty of identifying specific conclusions. The manuscripts authors acknowledge these issues, but I am not convinced that they have quite found a solution in this manuscript.
Although I am broadly familiar with the original PLUMBER exercise I do not know the details of this (and other work cited, such as that of Haughton) and this manuscript did not fill in those details for me. Rather the Introduction says that PLUMBER2 will be better and leaves it at that. The existing literature in general needs to be covered better – I don’t want a long review, but I need more to provide motivation for PLUMBER2.
As I understand it, PLUMBER concluded that the flux of sensible heat was simulated better than that of latent heat, which was consistent with the idea that the latter was in some senses a simpler process. PLUMBER2 reverses that conclusion (albeit with different metrics), but the fact that this is essentially ignored in the manuscript is consistent with the scant coverage of PLUMBER in the text.
My concerns around the amount of material and the low profile of specific questions were reinforced by the material on p26 around Fig.8. The paragraph describes the figure…but there is no mention of results. The next paragraph then moves on to related figures in the Supplement (this time with a little bit on results), but as a reader I was left wondering where any discussion of the implications of Fig.8 might be. Similarly on p30 there is discussion of Fig.11, including some interesting comments on the scale of applicability of the Budyko hypothesis, but it is almost an interesting aside and I was left looking for wider importance/more connection to the specific questions being studied.
Taken together Figs 3,4, 8, 9 and 10 contain many panels and a vast number of results, but it is arguable that little or no use is made of much of this information. The detailed results are most likely useful to the individual modelling groups, whereas the amount of information on display is almost overwhelming to general readers - and as noted much of it is not discussed in any detail. Ideally we might get a flavour of some of these results (e.g. for a subset of models?), but the full details could be left to the Supplement or modelevaluation.org.
My overall feeling having read this manuscript was that there was too much material for the limited number of new results or conclusions. What was written was correct and generally presented well, but there was no strong sense of a message being conveyed. This volume of information might be appropriate under some circumstances, but at present it feels excessive in comparison to how little use is made of it - and the general impression is of this paper being a broad description of a possible framework or technique without specific questions or new conclusions. The text itself notes that the choice of metric can (in general) strongly influence conclusions – so we are left wondering what is really knew and conclusive in PLUMBER2..
I agree that there needs to be a place in the “literature” for papers that describe the development of both the models and the accompanying modelling methodologies (including benchmarking). And those papers can be difficult to write and find a home for. However, in this case I feel that a shorter, more focussed paper would be more useful for the wider audience, and that more of the more detailed results should be moved into the Supplement (or elsewhere).
Minor comments
The use of contracted forms such as “it’s” and “we’re” means the style is less formal than might be expected. I don’t know if there are journal and/or editorial guidelines for this.
P23 (Qle/Rainf) and p30 (iNMV etc.) – use brackets rather than dashes to delimit these, as the latter can be read as minus signs, which is confusing.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-3084-RC2 -
AC2: 'Reply to RC2', Gab Abramowitz, 20 Mar 2024
This manuscript compares simulations of key fluxes from (mechanistic) land models with those from various empirical models (which importantly are not trained on the same data), using a large dataset of measured fluxes from sites around the world. Results include that the latent heat flux is generally better predicted than the sensible heat flux, with other results concerning the relative performance of different types of LM. There are also interesting indications that the energy closure approach used to adjust the measured fluxes might not be appropriate – though most results were insensitive to this aspect of the data. In general the empirical models outperform the mechanistic models, as in previous studies.
[1] This is a long paper (also with a substantial supplementary section) but despite this in some regards it is primarily setting out an approach that can be used to look at predictability, rather than posing and answering specific scientific questions in this area. (In this it is perhaps more a [long] technical note for Biogeosciences rather than a research article. Or would another journal be more appropriate?)We agree this is a reasonable question, and more or less agree with the assessment of the nature of this work. It would be within scope for Geoscientific Model Development, for example. Yet we feel that the central messages in this work (that we could admittedly better communicate) are of critical importance to the Biogeosciences community as colleagues who most often utilise land model output in studies trying to further understanding of surface fluxes and associated processes.
[2] A common difficulty with multi-model, multi-site evaluation exercises is the large amount of potential material that the authors have to boil down and synthesise, and the difficulty of identifying specific conclusions. The manuscripts authors acknowledge these issues, but I am not convinced that they have quite found a solution in this manuscript.
Yes, we appreciate this acknowledgement, this was one of the most difficult aspects of writing this paper - the many possible dimensions to analyse, so that any particular figure, or indeed collection of figures for an entire paper, are necessarily only partial. Adding the hierarchy of machine learning approaches only made this harder. Coupled together with the community’s familiarity or even expectation of detailed, process level analyses, it is quite a challenge! The additional perspectives of these two reviewers are clearly important for getting the balance right when refining the manuscript. We address each of the points raised below.
[3] Although I am broadly familiar with the original PLUMBER exercise I do not know the details of this (and other work cited, such as that of Haughton) and this manuscript did not fill in those details for me. Rather the Introduction says that PLUMBER2 will be better and leaves it at that. The existing literature in general needs to be covered better – I don’t want a long review, but I need more to provide motivation for PLUMBER2.
Yes, this was also raised by Reviewer 1 and we do agree it is an issue. Both better contextualisation of this work and clearer communication of the central questions it poses to answer are needed. We intend to spend considerable effort on both of these tasks, in the form of revised text that directly compare with PLUMBER results. Below is an incomplete list of the novel aspects of this work relative to the original PLUMBER experiment that we propose to make clearer, quite likely with a table:
- It contains a broad hierarchy of machine learning-based benchmarks that quantify information available to land models about flux prediction, from linear regression to random forest to Long-Short Term Memory models that have their own internal states. This allows us to define benchmark levels of performance that are much stricter than in previous studies and can be reasonably interpreted as a lower-bound estimate of site predictability, individually tailored to each site.
- It includes a much broader range of ecosystems and climate zones, using 170 instead of 20 flux tower sites
- It addresses energy conservation issues in the flux tower data, and can actually draw clear conclusions about the validity of the correction approach used in Fluxnet2015
- It includes an independent suite of metrics, so metrics like mean bias,correlation and standard deviation aren’t double counted (e.g. if RMSE were included)
- Critically, it includes significant work on a summative metric that is independent of the model being benchmarked. This means that the way that a priori expectations of model performance are defined does not require reference to the model being evaluated. It results in categorically different results, as evidenced in the difference between Figures 3 and 4.
- It uses a much broader range of models, including ecologically focused models, which are used by many Biogeosciences readers.
- Instead of only looking at a summative metric, results are explored through the graphical lenses of:
- Budyko framework, which revealed site behavioural characteristics at > 30% of sites that land models are structurally unable to replicate
- Water evaporative fraction and energy evaporative fraction
- Water use efficiency
- Vegetation type
- Site length
[4] As I understand it, PLUMBER concluded that the flux of sensible heat was simulated better than that of latent heat, which was consistent with the idea that the latter was in some senses a simpler process. PLUMBER2 reverses that conclusion (albeit with different metrics), but the fact that this is essentially ignored in the manuscript is consistent with the scant coverage of PLUMBER in the text.
No, in this sense the result is the same - sensible heat prediction is consistently worse in land models, despite being a conceptually simpler process in model representation. We will highlight that this finding is reinforced in PLUMBER2, which explores a much more diverse range of environments (170 versus 20 sites, across more ecosystems) and more robust methodology (e.g. independent metric suite and summative benchmarking approach that is independent of the model being benchmarked). This also raises the importance of spending more time highlighting the similarities and differences in the results of the two experiments, which we will do in the revised manuscript.
[5] My concerns around the amount of material and the low profile of specific questions were reinforced by the material on p26 around Fig.8. The paragraph describes the figure…but there is no mention of results. The next paragraph then moves on to related figures in the Supplement (this time with a little bit on results), but as a reader I was left wondering where any discussion of the implications of Fig.8 might be. Similarly on p30 there is discussion of Fig.11, including some interesting comments on the scale of applicability of the Budyko hypothesis, but it is almost an interesting aside and I was left looking for wider importance/more connection to the specific questions being studied.
Yes, this is a reasonable criticism. We propose to drop some of the figures and spend more time explaining the significance of those that remain. More detail on how we plan to do this is in our response to [6] below.
[6] Taken together Figs 3,4, 8, 9 and 10 contain many panels and a vast number of results, but it is arguable that little or no use is made of much of this information. The detailed results are most likely useful to the individual modelling groups, whereas the amount of information on display is almost overwhelming to general readers - and as noted much of it is not discussed in any detail. Ideally we might get a flavour of some of these results (e.g. for a subset of models?), but the full details could be left to the Supplement or modelevaluation.org.
Yes, as noted above we will drop some of the results figures and spend more time detailing the significance of those that remain. There is of course a balance to strike, since this work is indeed generating a lot of interest within the participant groups. However, given that the volume comes across as overwhelming, and that there is not enough space dedicated to dissecting results, we will at very least move Figures 8 and 9 to Supplementary Material, since their focus is on specific models (more of interest to participating modelling groups than the broader readership).
[7] My overall feeling having read this manuscript was that there was too much material for the limited number of new results or conclusions. What was written was correct and generally presented well, but there was no strong sense of a message being conveyed. This volume of information might be appropriate under some circumstances, but at present it feels excessive in comparison to how little use is made of it - and the general impression is of this paper being a broad description of a possible framework or technique without specific questions or new conclusions. The text itself notes that the choice of metric can (in general) strongly influence conclusions – so we are left wondering what is really knew and conclusive in PLUMBER2..
Yes, our feeling after reading these reviews is that this paper definitely needs a tighter focus - both in terms of explaining the context of the work, its aim, reducing the number of results presented in the main paper, and spending more time elucidating the nature and more importantly significance of what was found. While these are essentially text changes, they will be substantial and take time.
[8] I agree that there needs to be a place in the “literature” for papers that describe the development of both the models and the accompanying modelling methodologies (including benchmarking). And those papers can be difficult to write and find a home for. However, in this case I feel that a shorter, more focussed paper would be more useful for the wider audience, and that more of the more detailed results should be moved into the Supplement (or elsewhere).
Yes, agree, this is what we propose to do, as detailed above.
Minor comments
[9] The use of contracted forms such as “it’s” and “we’re” means the style is less formal than might be expected. I don’t know if there are journal and/or editorial guidelines for this.We are happy to revert to a more formal tone if the editor deems this more appropriate.
[10] P23 (Qle/Rainf) and p30 (iNMV etc.) – use brackets rather than dashes to delimit these, as the latter can be read as minus signs, which is confusing.
No problem, we will amend instances of dashes where they might be confused for subtraction.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-3084-AC2
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AC2: 'Reply to RC2', Gab Abramowitz, 20 Mar 2024
Status: closed
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-3084', Anonymous Referee #1, 23 Feb 2024
The manuscript by Abramowitz et al. examines the predictability of energy and carbon fluxes from land by using several empirical models as benchmarks to evaluate land models. Basically, the manuscript is an extended study of Best et al, 2015 (JHM) and Haughton et al, 2018 (GMD). The idea is of course very compelling and challenging. However, I have concerns about the current format of the manuscript.
1) The manuscript focuses too much on describing the PLUMBER2 MIP experiment, but lacks literature reviews of advances in physical understanding of land flux controls, e.g., stomatal conductance controlling latent heat and processes controlling GPP and Res, both of which fundamentally determine NEE.
2) Although the manuscript is quite long (47 unedited pages), no concise scientific or research question is formulated in either the abstract or the introduction. I strongly recommend that the authors reduce the length of the manuscript to at least half of its current length. This study is actually an extended study of Best et al, 2015 (JHM) and Haughton et al. 2018 (GMD). Although the manuscript describes some key differences from previous publications, these differences and improvements do not convince readers the novelty of the current research.
3) The main findings of this “preliminary” research are that LMs perform better at estimating NEE and Qle than Qh, and that online LMs outperform offline LMs and empirical models remarkably outperform LMs (in the abstract). The results are quite surprising to me. I wonder where this result comes from.
4) The abstract should have a clear scientific question.
5) In the introduction section, most of the references cited are from the authors themselves and their own research groups. I believe that there is a lot of literature that is closely related to this research but is overlooked. Again, the scientific question and the aim of the research should be described in the introduction.
6) The methodology section can be largely reduced as most of the information is repeated in previously published work. Please consider moving it (including Table 1) to the Supplementary Information section.
7) In the Results section, I note that all analyses are based on the average of all sites. We know that the partitioning of available energy differs largely across global flux sites. For example, a model error of 10 W/m2 at a wet site and a dry site means a big difference. Will treating the bias at all sites with equal weight affect the calculated metric value? Such difference may have impacts, particularly for PDF plot (Figure 5). In addition, some figures can be combined, e.g. Fig. 1-2 and Fig. 6-7. Such combinations make it easier for authors to follow the story.
8) In the Discussion section, I find that the discussion does not focus on the topic – whether the land fluxes can be predicted or not and their causes and how LMs can be improved to improve the flux prediction performance. I believe that the modelling community would welcome this type of discussion.
9) Lines 230 and 645, it is stated that Qle/Rainfall is greater than 1 at more than 30% of the flux sites. This is quite plausible, as the Budyko framework was not used to assess the water balance at the site level, but at the watershed level, as explained in lines 646-647. However, I wonder whether the exclusion of these sites (Qle/Rainfall > 1) has a significant impact on the main results (Fig. 1-10).
10) If what I understand is correct, the "mean" flux is the sole focus covered in the current manuscript. Inter-annual variability and trend of land fluxes are also anticipated in the modelling community due to the large number of sites with long data (> 10 years).
Although the current manuscript has many significant weaknesses and some of which are due to the complexity of the problem under study, I will be happy to provide a further comprehensive assessment when the authors restructure the manuscript with far fewer pages, informative illustrations and focused scientific questions.
I hope that the authors do not take these comments as negative but rather as a way to improve the quality of the paper.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-3084-RC1 -
AC1: 'Reply to RC1', Gab Abramowitz, 20 Mar 2024
The manuscript by Abramowitz et al. examines the predictability of energy and carbon fluxes from land by using several empirical models as benchmarks to evaluate land models. Basically, the manuscript is an extended study of Best et al, 2015 (JHM) and Haughton et al, 2018 (GMD). The idea is of course very compelling and challenging. However, I have concerns about the current format of the manuscript.
We appreciate the time and effort put into reviewing the paper, and are glad the reviewer found the idea compelling and challenging. We agree with many of the points raised below regarding formatting, and address each in turn.1) The manuscript focuses too much on describing the PLUMBER2 MIP experiment, but lacks literature reviews of advances in physical understanding of land flux controls, e.g., stomatal conductance controlling latent heat and processes controlling GPP and Res, both of which fundamentally determine NEE.
Yes, we could of course add a discussion or literature review of the physical controls on land fluxes, and would be very happy to add that if the editor also agrees this is needed (noting however that it will add to the length of the manuscript). The reason it is not there is because the manuscript is fundamentally not focused on this question - it is about understanding the best approach to evaluate land models using tower data, which methodological choices when doing this could lead to qualitatively different results, and then ultimately how those choices should be made. These choices include metrics, how to create a useful summative indicator, establish model performance expectations before seeing simulations, whether fluxes should be energy balance corrected or not, and other aspects of data quality control. This is as opposed to using this MIP to actually better understand the natural system (also a laudable goal of course, and something that is being investigated in separate pieces of work using this data by others). That this focus was not apparent is a failure on our part, it needs to be much more clearly articulated. We address this issue in more detail in our response to (2) below.The expectation that the aim of this paper is to further our understanding of the physical system is entirely reasonable for Biogeosciences. But we also feel that the focus on how methodological choices in model evaluation - that often appear trivially unimportant and go unquestioned - qualitatively change the nature of scientific inference, is particularly important for the Biogeosciences audience, who use land models for scientific inference regularly.
As suggested, we will shorten the methodology section. However, one of the main roles of this manuscript, as detailed in the title, is to describe and justify the experimental setup, so a considerable amount of detail needs to be dedicated to this, as it does not exist elsewhere. If the reviewer or editor feels that some of this information is superfluous we would indeed be willing to cut it from the manuscript, but to us at least, it’s not clear a priori what should be cut, and we note that no specific suggestions were made. We want to reinforce that the level of detail reflects the reality that a great deal of thought on the part of many people was put into the construction of the many different aspects of this experiment that could qualitatively change the nature of the conclusions. We believe the relevance and importance of this experimental detail will be apparent once the paper is better framed.
2) Although the manuscript is quite long (47 unedited pages), no concise scientific or research question is formulated in either the abstract or the introduction.
We really do agree with this, and believe it is the most important concern raised by both reviewers. We also feel that with the focus of the paper better articulated, the relevance and importance of its considerable methodological detail will become clearer. While the sentence below is far from perfect and will be refined in the final paper, its essence is our research question:Can we create an evaluation methodology / environment that allows us to accurately and reliably quantify the improvement in land model performance that is known to be possible in a wide variety of conditions?
We want to develop an approach that gives us confidence that model evaluation is not partial - not dependent upon a metric or metric group, observational data choice, a particular location or time, subset of processes, etc - that it is the closest we can get to a summative understanding of the inevitable shortcomings of any particular model.
Obviously “understanding of the inevitable shortcomings of any particular model” is detailed, difficult work, and very much specific to that model, but the testing environment where that can be fairly assessed is not.
[2a] I strongly recommend that the authors reduce the length of the manuscript to at least half of its current length.
We feel that with the paper length halved, we could do little more than describe the experimental setup. However, we do agree to shorten the methodology section, and reduce the number of results shown in the main manuscript. We at least plan to remove results shown in Figures 8 and 9, and discuss remaining results in more detail. Reviewer 2 correctly noted that the discussion of some of the results was far too brief, and we feel that (a) better framing, motivation and articulation of the key foci of the paper (b) more detailed discussion of fewer results, and (c) better tying of these results to the conclusions drawn about these foci will make the shorter manuscript more cohesive in a way that its (reduced) length is justified (although not halved).[2b] This study is actually an extended study of Best et al, 2015 (JHM) and Haughton et al. 2018 (GMD). Although the manuscript describes some key differences from previous publications, these differences and improvements do not convince readers the novelty of the current research.
This comment, and the one in (6) below where the reviewer states that “most of the information is repeated in previously published work” clearly speaks to the need for us to better articulate the focus of the paper, as this is simply not true. We do accept that we need to better “convince readers the novelty of the current research”.There are many novel aspects to this work relative to the original PLUMBER experiment that make this work categorically different, and a powerful resource for the community going forward:
- It contains a broad hierarchy of machine learning-based benchmarks that quantify information available to land models about flux prediction, from linear regression to random forest to Long-Short Term Memory models that have their own internal states. This allows us to define benchmark levels of performance that are much stricter than in previous studies and can be reasonably interpreted as a lower-bound estimate of site predictability, individually tailored to each site.
- It includes a much broader range of ecosystems and climate zones, using 170 instead of 20 flux tower sites
- It addresses energy conservation issues in the flux tower data, and can actually draw clear conclusions about the validity of the correction approach used in Fluxnet2015
- It includes an independent suite of metrics, so metrics like mean bias,correlation and standard deviation aren’t double counted (e.g. if RMSE were included)
- Critically, it includes significant work on a summative metric that is independent of the model being benchmarked. This means that the way that a priori expectations of model performance are defined does not require reference to the model being evaluated. It results in categorically different results, as evidenced in the difference between Figures 3 and 4.
- It uses a much broader range of models, including ecologically focused models, which are used by many Biogeosciences readers.
- Instead of only looking at a summative metric, results are explored through the graphical lenses of:
- Budyko framework, which revealed site behavioural characteristics at > 30% of sites that land models are structurally unable to replicate
- Water evaporative fraction and energy evaporative fraction
- Water use efficiency
- Vegetation type
- Site length
This is not a comprehensive list, and none of these were investigated in the original experiment. To address this communication failure we aim to highlight these differences more explicitly and consistently in the revised manuscript, and suggest that perhaps a table contrasting the two experiments might be warranted to help readers less familiar with the differences between them - happy to take advice on that stylistic choice.
3) The main findings of this “preliminary” research are that LMs perform better at estimating NEE and Qle than Qh, and that online LMs outperform offline LMs and empirical models remarkably outperform LMs (in the abstract). The results are quite surprising to me. I wonder where this result comes from.
It is an excellent question, and it is something we hope that this paper motivates the community to explore. It is also not something we can answer here, since the answer is different for each of the participating models, and different in different meteorological conditions, moisture regimes and ecosystems. Reviewer 2 notes that the “difficulty with multi-model, multi-site evaluation exercises is the large amount of potential material that the authors have to boil down and synthesise, and the difficulty of identifying specific conclusions”. This is precisely why this first paper coming from the PLUMBER2 MIP needs to detail the experimental setup and focus on high-level results. It is providing a far more comprehensive and methodologically complete platform (relative to the original PLUMBER experiment) for the community to investigate why empirical models outperform mechanistic models by such a wide margin. Different groups are already preparing separate work that tries to get at specific aspects of this important question, like the wide range of responses to vapour pressure deficit across the model ensemble (in preparation).Indeed by including a much clearer motivation of the methodological decisions made, testing a wide range of different assumptions more explicitly, and making the testing platform public, PLUMBER2 facilitates these kinds of critical analyses in a way that the first PLUMBER experiment could not. It is actively designed for this purpose.
An aside: noting the reviewers comment that “online LMs outperform offline LMs” - we want to be clear that all LM simulations were offline. It is true that those LMs built to be used in a coupled environment performed better, presumably what is being referred to here.
4) The abstract should have a clear scientific question.
Yes, as noted above, we do agree with this. In our case the question is quite fundamentally methodological - about the steps we need to take to ensure model evaluation is a true reflection of the predictive ability of a model (rather than data quality, overfitting, or metric choice). This might well be different to an expectation that we focus on what controls surface fluxes, but it is an important scientific question nonetheless. Please see our response to [2] above where we detail a candidate question for inclusion in the paper and discuss its motivations.5) In the introduction section, most of the references cited are from the authors themselves and their own research groups. I believe that there is a lot of literature that is closely related to this research but is overlooked. Again, the scientific question and the aim of the research should be described in the introduction.
As noted above in our response to [2] and [4], we agree with this and plan to address it.6) The methodology section can be largely reduced as most of the information is repeated in previously published work. Please consider moving it (including Table 1) to the Supplementary Information section.
This is perhaps where a lot of the misunderstanding comes from - we really do not agree that “most of the information is repeated in previously published work”. Both PLUMBER and PLUMBER2 compare mechanistic models with empirical models at flux tower sites, that much is the same, we agree. So perhaps to someone working in a different area, or with different ideas about what mechanistic models represent, they may seem identical. But since the original PLUMBER paper in 2015, many arguments have been made dismissing the results as not representative of the state of mechanistic modelling. A great deal of work addressing these concerns and creating a robust platform to explore these results is embodied in this paper (including more than 8x the number of sites, machine learning benchmark hierarchy and more, as detailed in the list in our response to [2b] above).
The four sections of the methodology - flux tower data, land model simulations, machine learning benchmarks, and analyses - all detail new material that is not included in the papers the reviewer refers to, and do not repeat material from earlier papers.
Table 1 details the models that participated in the experiment, as well as specific information about how each model conducted simulations. This is not described anywhere else, and the group of models is different (literally and qualitatively) to the previously published papers. We would suggest that if there is any interest in the physical understanding of land flux controls, as suggested above, this information is critical, at least in the modelling context.
What we propose to do to resolve this issue is to edit all of these sections to more explicitly state what was done in the original PLUMBER experiment that the reviewer refers to, and highlight why the new approach that is taken in the paper resolves an important shortcoming in the original experiment. We listed many examples of these differences in our response to [2b] above, and further discuss our plan to address this issue there.
7) In the Results section, I note that all analyses are based on the average of all sites. We know that the partitioning of available energy differs largely across global flux sites. For example, a model error of 10 W/m2 at a wet site and a dry site means a big difference. Will treating the bias at all sites with equal weight affect the calculated metric value? Such difference may have impacts, particularly for PDF plot (Figure 5). In addition, some figures can be combined, e.g. Fig. 1-2 and Fig. 6-7. Such combinations make it easier for authors to follow the story.
Only the analyses in Figure 1 and Figure 2 - two out of eleven figures - average results across sites. Figure 6 through to Figure 11 look at the spread of results across different sites, looking at box plots for sites belonging to each vegetation type, evaporative fraction, water use efficiency, or each site’s location on a Budyko curve, for example.Nevertheless, the reviewer raises an excellent point regarding to the potential for unfair weighting between e.g. wet and dry sites, when an absolute error metric is used. This is precisely why in PLUMBER we have moved away from a traditional model intercomparison “evaluation” (comparing error metrics directly) and towards a “benchmarking” approach (comparing a model’s relative performance to a benchmark that is specific to each site). Using benchmarking, the difficulty of prediction at “wet” and “dry” sites (or other differences, e.g. data quality) can be accounted for, and unfair weighting of sites avoided.
In Section 2.3 we state:
“The empirical models we use as benchmarks are also listed in Table 1. As suggested above, these are key to quantifying site predictability, and so setting benchmark levels of performance for LMs that reflect the varying difficulty or complexity of prediction at different sites, unknown issues with data quality at some sites and more broadly understanding the amount of information that LM inputs provide about fluxes.”However we agree that this key benefit of benchmarking could be better introduced earlier in the manuscript.
Once again, this is a paper giving only high-level summative results of 170 separate simulations all completed by 32 different models of somewhere between two and fifty variables, after giving a complete experimental setup description. Examining results at each of the 170 individual sites, or coming to an understanding of a particular model’s likely cause of discrepancies is simply not practical for this paper. More detailed, process-based, specific analyses in additional papers are indeed being prepared by others, as noted above, but we argue, do not fit in this context. Having this paper detail the motivation and methodology of the experiment, and how it addresses criticisms raised about the original PLUMBER experiment, is critical for future work to refer to and have the space remaining to explore process-level investigations in detail.
We have no a priori objection to combining the figures as suggested, but it would mean many full page figures. Reducing figure size would make it very hard to see the detail, and the required font sizes might make much of the material unreadable. Happy to take advice from the editor on what the journal would prefer, but our preference would be to keep the figures at half page or less in size. Please also note that as we detail above, the number of figures is going to be reduced, perhaps resolving this concern anyway…?
8) In the Discussion section, I find that the discussion does not focus on the topic – whether the land fluxes can be predicted or not and their causes and how LMs can be improved to improve the flux prediction performance. I believe that the modelling community would welcome this type of discussion.
Once again, we agree that this is an excellent topic of discussion, and that understanding the reason for this poor performance is very important. It is indeed the kind of discussion we hope that this experiment will engender in the community, and of course, we all want to know the answers to these questions. However, as noted above, the answers are not at all simple, specific to each model, and different in different conditions. The kind of analysis that this requires cannot be part of a paper that also details the considerable nuance in experimental setup that is required to ensure that results of a large model intercomparison like this are reasonable and fair. If this were a study involving one or two models, or just a handful of sites, we would agree that more detailed analysis is needed.
9) Lines 230 and 645, it is stated that Qle/Rainfall is greater than 1 at more than 30% of the flux sites. This is quite plausible, as the Budyko framework was not used to assess the water balance at the site level, but at the watershed level, as explained in lines 646-647. However, I wonder whether the exclusion of these sites (Qle/Rainfall > 1) has a significant impact on the main results (Fig. 1-10).
That information is readily available in Figure 11 already. If it did have a significant impact, there would be a marked difference in the colours above the (horizontal) evaporative fraction = 1 line: blue and green colours would be prevalent above, and red and yellow colours below. This is clearly not the case.We will add text to this section to make this clearer.
10) If what I understand is correct, the "mean" flux is the sole focus covered in the current manuscript. Inter-annual variability and trend of land fluxes are also anticipated in the modelling community due to the large number of sites with long data (> 10 years).
No, only the results in Figures 1, 2, 6 and 7 show results using mean fluxes. The others use the distribution of half hourly flux values in different ways, such as the density of half hourly values (Figure 5), and summative performance at the half hourly timescale in terms of temporal correlation (which includes interannual variability), performance in extremes (5th / 95th percentile difference), discrepancies in standard deviation, density estimate overlap and more.Once again, we completely agree that inter-annual variability and trend would be interesting to examine. If this experiment looked at just a few models, or just a few sites, this kind of additional analysis could be feasible, but the interannual variability or trend in flux of 32 models at 100s of sites could only be cursorily summarised in a single figure. We also note that this is a request to make the paper longer, at the same time as we are being asked to shorten the paper.
[10a] Although the current manuscript has many significant weaknesses and some of which are due to the complexity of the problem under study, I will be happy to provide a further comprehensive assessment when the authors restructure the manuscript with far fewer pages, informative illustrations and focused scientific questions.
While we disagree with several of the suggested changes, particularly the suggestion that the methodology is in essence superfluous, we nevertheless agree that the onus is on us to make this work more relevant to the community, so your further assessment would indeed be welcomed. We suspect the perspective you have provided is very much that of the broader Biogeosciences community, so that making sure we communicate the important findings of this work in a clearer and more concise manner is in everyone’s best interests.I hope that the authors do not take these comments as negative but rather as a way to improve the quality of the paper.
Absolutely! We agree with many of these points raised, and are keen to strengthen the paper accordingly.Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-3084-AC1
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AC1: 'Reply to RC1', Gab Abramowitz, 20 Mar 2024
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RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-3084', Anonymous Referee #2, 26 Feb 2024
This manuscript compares simulations of key fluxes from (mechanistic) land models with those from various empirical models (which importantly are not trained on the same data), using a large dataset of measured fluxes from sites around the world. Results include that the latent heat flux is generally better predicted than the sensible heat flux, with other results concerning the relative performance of different types of LM. There are also interesting indications that the energy closure approach used to adjust the measured fluxes might not be appropriate – though most results were insensitive to this aspect of the data. In general the empirical models outperform the mechanistic models, as in previous studies.
This is a long paper (also with a substantial supplementary section) but despite this in some regards it is primarily setting out an approach that can be used to look at predictability, rather than posing and answering specific scientific questions in this area. (In this it is perhaps more a [long] technical note for Biogeosciences rather than a research article. Or would another journal be more appropriate?)
A common difficulty with multi-model, multi-site evaluation exercises is the large amount of potential material that the authors have to boil down and synthesise, and the difficulty of identifying specific conclusions. The manuscripts authors acknowledge these issues, but I am not convinced that they have quite found a solution in this manuscript.
Although I am broadly familiar with the original PLUMBER exercise I do not know the details of this (and other work cited, such as that of Haughton) and this manuscript did not fill in those details for me. Rather the Introduction says that PLUMBER2 will be better and leaves it at that. The existing literature in general needs to be covered better – I don’t want a long review, but I need more to provide motivation for PLUMBER2.
As I understand it, PLUMBER concluded that the flux of sensible heat was simulated better than that of latent heat, which was consistent with the idea that the latter was in some senses a simpler process. PLUMBER2 reverses that conclusion (albeit with different metrics), but the fact that this is essentially ignored in the manuscript is consistent with the scant coverage of PLUMBER in the text.
My concerns around the amount of material and the low profile of specific questions were reinforced by the material on p26 around Fig.8. The paragraph describes the figure…but there is no mention of results. The next paragraph then moves on to related figures in the Supplement (this time with a little bit on results), but as a reader I was left wondering where any discussion of the implications of Fig.8 might be. Similarly on p30 there is discussion of Fig.11, including some interesting comments on the scale of applicability of the Budyko hypothesis, but it is almost an interesting aside and I was left looking for wider importance/more connection to the specific questions being studied.
Taken together Figs 3,4, 8, 9 and 10 contain many panels and a vast number of results, but it is arguable that little or no use is made of much of this information. The detailed results are most likely useful to the individual modelling groups, whereas the amount of information on display is almost overwhelming to general readers - and as noted much of it is not discussed in any detail. Ideally we might get a flavour of some of these results (e.g. for a subset of models?), but the full details could be left to the Supplement or modelevaluation.org.
My overall feeling having read this manuscript was that there was too much material for the limited number of new results or conclusions. What was written was correct and generally presented well, but there was no strong sense of a message being conveyed. This volume of information might be appropriate under some circumstances, but at present it feels excessive in comparison to how little use is made of it - and the general impression is of this paper being a broad description of a possible framework or technique without specific questions or new conclusions. The text itself notes that the choice of metric can (in general) strongly influence conclusions – so we are left wondering what is really knew and conclusive in PLUMBER2..
I agree that there needs to be a place in the “literature” for papers that describe the development of both the models and the accompanying modelling methodologies (including benchmarking). And those papers can be difficult to write and find a home for. However, in this case I feel that a shorter, more focussed paper would be more useful for the wider audience, and that more of the more detailed results should be moved into the Supplement (or elsewhere).
Minor comments
The use of contracted forms such as “it’s” and “we’re” means the style is less formal than might be expected. I don’t know if there are journal and/or editorial guidelines for this.
P23 (Qle/Rainf) and p30 (iNMV etc.) – use brackets rather than dashes to delimit these, as the latter can be read as minus signs, which is confusing.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-3084-RC2 -
AC2: 'Reply to RC2', Gab Abramowitz, 20 Mar 2024
This manuscript compares simulations of key fluxes from (mechanistic) land models with those from various empirical models (which importantly are not trained on the same data), using a large dataset of measured fluxes from sites around the world. Results include that the latent heat flux is generally better predicted than the sensible heat flux, with other results concerning the relative performance of different types of LM. There are also interesting indications that the energy closure approach used to adjust the measured fluxes might not be appropriate – though most results were insensitive to this aspect of the data. In general the empirical models outperform the mechanistic models, as in previous studies.
[1] This is a long paper (also with a substantial supplementary section) but despite this in some regards it is primarily setting out an approach that can be used to look at predictability, rather than posing and answering specific scientific questions in this area. (In this it is perhaps more a [long] technical note for Biogeosciences rather than a research article. Or would another journal be more appropriate?)We agree this is a reasonable question, and more or less agree with the assessment of the nature of this work. It would be within scope for Geoscientific Model Development, for example. Yet we feel that the central messages in this work (that we could admittedly better communicate) are of critical importance to the Biogeosciences community as colleagues who most often utilise land model output in studies trying to further understanding of surface fluxes and associated processes.
[2] A common difficulty with multi-model, multi-site evaluation exercises is the large amount of potential material that the authors have to boil down and synthesise, and the difficulty of identifying specific conclusions. The manuscripts authors acknowledge these issues, but I am not convinced that they have quite found a solution in this manuscript.
Yes, we appreciate this acknowledgement, this was one of the most difficult aspects of writing this paper - the many possible dimensions to analyse, so that any particular figure, or indeed collection of figures for an entire paper, are necessarily only partial. Adding the hierarchy of machine learning approaches only made this harder. Coupled together with the community’s familiarity or even expectation of detailed, process level analyses, it is quite a challenge! The additional perspectives of these two reviewers are clearly important for getting the balance right when refining the manuscript. We address each of the points raised below.
[3] Although I am broadly familiar with the original PLUMBER exercise I do not know the details of this (and other work cited, such as that of Haughton) and this manuscript did not fill in those details for me. Rather the Introduction says that PLUMBER2 will be better and leaves it at that. The existing literature in general needs to be covered better – I don’t want a long review, but I need more to provide motivation for PLUMBER2.
Yes, this was also raised by Reviewer 1 and we do agree it is an issue. Both better contextualisation of this work and clearer communication of the central questions it poses to answer are needed. We intend to spend considerable effort on both of these tasks, in the form of revised text that directly compare with PLUMBER results. Below is an incomplete list of the novel aspects of this work relative to the original PLUMBER experiment that we propose to make clearer, quite likely with a table:
- It contains a broad hierarchy of machine learning-based benchmarks that quantify information available to land models about flux prediction, from linear regression to random forest to Long-Short Term Memory models that have their own internal states. This allows us to define benchmark levels of performance that are much stricter than in previous studies and can be reasonably interpreted as a lower-bound estimate of site predictability, individually tailored to each site.
- It includes a much broader range of ecosystems and climate zones, using 170 instead of 20 flux tower sites
- It addresses energy conservation issues in the flux tower data, and can actually draw clear conclusions about the validity of the correction approach used in Fluxnet2015
- It includes an independent suite of metrics, so metrics like mean bias,correlation and standard deviation aren’t double counted (e.g. if RMSE were included)
- Critically, it includes significant work on a summative metric that is independent of the model being benchmarked. This means that the way that a priori expectations of model performance are defined does not require reference to the model being evaluated. It results in categorically different results, as evidenced in the difference between Figures 3 and 4.
- It uses a much broader range of models, including ecologically focused models, which are used by many Biogeosciences readers.
- Instead of only looking at a summative metric, results are explored through the graphical lenses of:
- Budyko framework, which revealed site behavioural characteristics at > 30% of sites that land models are structurally unable to replicate
- Water evaporative fraction and energy evaporative fraction
- Water use efficiency
- Vegetation type
- Site length
[4] As I understand it, PLUMBER concluded that the flux of sensible heat was simulated better than that of latent heat, which was consistent with the idea that the latter was in some senses a simpler process. PLUMBER2 reverses that conclusion (albeit with different metrics), but the fact that this is essentially ignored in the manuscript is consistent with the scant coverage of PLUMBER in the text.
No, in this sense the result is the same - sensible heat prediction is consistently worse in land models, despite being a conceptually simpler process in model representation. We will highlight that this finding is reinforced in PLUMBER2, which explores a much more diverse range of environments (170 versus 20 sites, across more ecosystems) and more robust methodology (e.g. independent metric suite and summative benchmarking approach that is independent of the model being benchmarked). This also raises the importance of spending more time highlighting the similarities and differences in the results of the two experiments, which we will do in the revised manuscript.
[5] My concerns around the amount of material and the low profile of specific questions were reinforced by the material on p26 around Fig.8. The paragraph describes the figure…but there is no mention of results. The next paragraph then moves on to related figures in the Supplement (this time with a little bit on results), but as a reader I was left wondering where any discussion of the implications of Fig.8 might be. Similarly on p30 there is discussion of Fig.11, including some interesting comments on the scale of applicability of the Budyko hypothesis, but it is almost an interesting aside and I was left looking for wider importance/more connection to the specific questions being studied.
Yes, this is a reasonable criticism. We propose to drop some of the figures and spend more time explaining the significance of those that remain. More detail on how we plan to do this is in our response to [6] below.
[6] Taken together Figs 3,4, 8, 9 and 10 contain many panels and a vast number of results, but it is arguable that little or no use is made of much of this information. The detailed results are most likely useful to the individual modelling groups, whereas the amount of information on display is almost overwhelming to general readers - and as noted much of it is not discussed in any detail. Ideally we might get a flavour of some of these results (e.g. for a subset of models?), but the full details could be left to the Supplement or modelevaluation.org.
Yes, as noted above we will drop some of the results figures and spend more time detailing the significance of those that remain. There is of course a balance to strike, since this work is indeed generating a lot of interest within the participant groups. However, given that the volume comes across as overwhelming, and that there is not enough space dedicated to dissecting results, we will at very least move Figures 8 and 9 to Supplementary Material, since their focus is on specific models (more of interest to participating modelling groups than the broader readership).
[7] My overall feeling having read this manuscript was that there was too much material for the limited number of new results or conclusions. What was written was correct and generally presented well, but there was no strong sense of a message being conveyed. This volume of information might be appropriate under some circumstances, but at present it feels excessive in comparison to how little use is made of it - and the general impression is of this paper being a broad description of a possible framework or technique without specific questions or new conclusions. The text itself notes that the choice of metric can (in general) strongly influence conclusions – so we are left wondering what is really knew and conclusive in PLUMBER2..
Yes, our feeling after reading these reviews is that this paper definitely needs a tighter focus - both in terms of explaining the context of the work, its aim, reducing the number of results presented in the main paper, and spending more time elucidating the nature and more importantly significance of what was found. While these are essentially text changes, they will be substantial and take time.
[8] I agree that there needs to be a place in the “literature” for papers that describe the development of both the models and the accompanying modelling methodologies (including benchmarking). And those papers can be difficult to write and find a home for. However, in this case I feel that a shorter, more focussed paper would be more useful for the wider audience, and that more of the more detailed results should be moved into the Supplement (or elsewhere).
Yes, agree, this is what we propose to do, as detailed above.
Minor comments
[9] The use of contracted forms such as “it’s” and “we’re” means the style is less formal than might be expected. I don’t know if there are journal and/or editorial guidelines for this.We are happy to revert to a more formal tone if the editor deems this more appropriate.
[10] P23 (Qle/Rainf) and p30 (iNMV etc.) – use brackets rather than dashes to delimit these, as the latter can be read as minus signs, which is confusing.
No problem, we will amend instances of dashes where they might be confused for subtraction.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-3084-AC2
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AC2: 'Reply to RC2', Gab Abramowitz, 20 Mar 2024
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2 citations as recorded by crossref.
- Evaluation of an Adaptive Soil Moisture Bias Correction Approach in the ECMWF Land Data Assimilation System D. Fairbairn et al. 10.3390/rs16030493
- Global patterns in vegetation accessible subsurface water storage emerge from spatially varying importance of individual drivers F. van Oorschot et al. 10.1088/1748-9326/ad8805