Basic chemical compositions combination rules and quantitative criterion of red beds

Cui, Guangjun; Liao, Jin; Kong, Linghua; Zhou, Cuiying; Liu, Zhen; Yu, Lei; Zhang, Lihai

doi:https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590

Preprints

https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590

Preprints

29 Jan 2024

| 29 Jan 2024

Basic chemical compositions combination rules and quantitative criterion of red beds

Guangjun Cui, Jin Liao, Linghua Kong, Cuiying Zhou, Zhen Liu, Lei Yu, and Lihai Zhang

Abstract. Red beds belong to slippery formations, and their rapid identification is of great significance for major scientific and engineering issues such as geological hazard risk assessment and rapid response. Existing research often identifies red beds from a qualitative or semi quantitative perspective, resulting in slow recognition speed and inaccurate recognition results, making it difficult to quickly handle landslide geological disasters. Combined with the correlation between red beds geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions, this study established a rapid quantitative identification criterion based on the basic chemical compositions combination rules in the red beds. By collecting chemical compositions data of rocks containing red beds, a total of 241,405 groups data were collected for qualitative and quantitative comparison between multiple sets of chemical composition combinations. The results indicate that simultaneously meeting the following chemical composition combinations can serve as a quantitative criterion for distinguishing red beds from other rocks: SiO₂+Al₂O₃ ≈ 50.7 %~85.0 %, Al₂O₃/SiO₂ ≈ 0.14~0.41, FeO+Fe₂O₃ ≈ 0.9 %~7.9 %, Fe₂O₃/FeO ≈ 1.52~7.70, K₂O+Na₂O ≈ 1.6 %~6.8 %, Na₂O/K₂O ≈ 0.02~0.43, CaO+MgO ≈ 0.8 %~9.2 %. By comparing the chemical composition combinations of 15 kinds of rocks collected from China in this study, it is proven that the quantitative criterion proposed in this study are effective.

Received: 03 Nov 2023 – Discussion started: 29 Jan 2024

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Journal article(s) based on this preprint

20 Sep 2024

Basic chemical composition combination rules and quantitative criterion of red beds

Guangjun Cui, Jin Liao, Linghua Kong, Cuiying Zhou, Zhen Liu, Lei Yu, and Lihai Zhang

Solid Earth, 15, 1185–1201, https://doi.org/10.5194/se-15-1185-2024,https://doi.org/10.5194/se-15-1185-2024, 2024

Short summary

Guangjun Cui, Jin Liao, Linghua Kong, Cuiying Zhou, Zhen Liu, Lei Yu, and Lihai Zhang

Interactive discussion

Status: closed

RC1:
'Comment on egusphere-2023-2590', Anonymous Referee #1, 27 Mar 2024

The comment was uploaded in the form of a supplement: https://egusphere.copernicus.org/preprints/2024/egusphere-2023-2590/egusphere-2023-2590-RC1-supplement.pdf

Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590-RC1
- AC1: 'Reply on RC1', Zhen Liu, 07 Apr 2024
  
  Comments and Suggestions for Authors
  This study established a rapid quantitative identification criterion based on the basic chemical compositions combination rules in the red beds. The manuscript is well written and the topic is interesting and novel. By comparing the chemical composition combinations of 15 kinds of rocks collected from China in this study, it is proven that the quantitative criterion proposed in this study are effective. The work performed in the manuscript is comprehensive and in-depth. However, there are some minor problems that should be addressed before any further publication process.
  Response: Thank you very much for your review of this manuscript. The following are the revisions made to the manuscript one by one based on your comments.
  
  Required changes:
  Point 1: In fact, the second section on methods is very rich in content. It mentioned previous research on the comparison between red beds and other rocks. But in this chapter, whether this part of the content overlaps with the introduction. Please provide a reasonable explanation. Additionally, as this section is too lengthy, it is recommended to add a suitable flowchart to facilitate better reading for readers. In addition, in section 2.1, the principle and instrument photos of the handheld elemental analyzer appear slightly monotonous. A schematic diagram can be formed by combining its principle and instrument photos.
  Response 1: We have revised the last paragraph of 1 Introduction based on your suggestion and adjusted the content of the paragraph regarding to 2 Methods. For the convenience of readers to read better, adjust the position of Figure 1 to 2 Methods according to your suggestions. The schematic diagram of the handheld elemental analyzer has been added (Figure 3).
  1 Introduction Lines 74-78
  “Therefore, the purpose of this study to develop a quantitative criterion for quickly and accurately identifying the red beds. This study first collected the data about the geomorphic characteristics, mineral content, and chemical composition of red beds and other rocks, then compared these data to obtain the basic characteristics of red beds, and finally summarized and analyzed the red beds identification criterion and verified the reliability of this criterion.”
  2 Methods Lines 81-86
  “Figure 1 shows the methodology used in this study involving the investigation of geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions (the perspective of chemical compositions is the focus of this study). In this study, data on geomorphological features, mineral content and chemical composition of the red beds and other rocks were first collected, then these data were compared to derive the basic characteristics of the red beds, and finally the red bed identification criteria were summarized and analyzed, and the reliability of the criteria was verified.”
  2.2 Criterion verification Lines 178-184
  “The working principle of this instrument is that a miniature X-ray source provides tube voltage and tube current, and the light tube emits continuous X-ray spectral lines. The X-rays irradiated on the sample knock out the inner electrons of the K and L layers of the element atoms, and the holes in the low-energy layer are filled by high-energy outer electrons (N layer). The high-energy electrons emit excess energy as X-ray fluorescence (Ka) with elemental characteristics. Thus, the instrument detects the type and concentration of elements through the emitted spectral lines.”
  Figure 3. MiX5 Pro handheld X-ray fluorescence element analyzer.
  
  Point 2: In the third section of Results and Discussion, both sections 3.2 and 3.3 describe the results through tables or figures. In section 3.1, it was found that the geomorphic characteristics of the red beds were mainly described through literature review, and the content was not rich enough. Can appropriate figures or table data be added.
  Response 2: In Section 3.1, the identification of red beds is qualitatively explained by adding Figure 4 to illustrate the geomorphic characteristics of the red beds.
  Figure 4. Geomorphic characteristics of the red beds.
  
  Point 3: Some general recommendations regarding the presentation of contents. (1) figure 2. I suggest writing "Location of the study area" and, if possible, add a description of what there is in the photo. For example, can the sample be dispersed by adding a map of China. (2) In the research status of the introduction, it should take a positive attitude towards the previous research results on the whole and deny them praise. It could talk about advantages before disadvantages. (3) Do the colors in the small figures in Figures 4 and 5 represent the same type of rock? Please make a note or add a picture frame in the image. (4) Can Table 3 also be presented in the form of an interval graph, and then 15 types of rocks can be scattered in this interval for intuitive judgment and verification.
  Response 3: (1) Sample locations have been added to Figure 2 and labeled on the map of China. (2) The Introduction provides a positive evaluation of previous achievements and points out the research that still needs to be carried out in this manuscript. (3) The same legend in Figures 4 and 5 represents the same type of rock, as explained in the figure title. (4) Table 3 has been modified to indicate the differences between these rocks and the red layer through orange shading.
  Figure 2. Distribution areas of red beds in China and sampling locations for 15 types of rocks.
  1 Introduction Lines 59-61
  “At this stage, the research on the geomorphology, mineral color and clay content of the red beds lays the foundation for the identification of the red beds, but this identification is still vague and needs to be further quantified.”
  Figure 6. Comparison of (a) SiO₂ and Al₂O₃, (b) FeO and Fe₂O₃, (c) K₂O and Na₂O, (d) CaO and MgO contents in red beds, igneous rock, and metamorphic rocks, respectively. (Note: Icons of the same color in the figure have the same meanings)
  
  Point 4: Problems in the tables and figures in the manuscript. Please carefully check the accuracy of the units and formats of all tables and figures. Such as, the format of each tables and figures needs to be consistent before and after.
  Response 4: We have standardized the format of all figures and tables in the manuscript based on your suggestions.
  
  Point 5: Some general recommendations regarding the contents of the paper. I found that the authors do not use the unified and correct significant figures and decimals in the whole paper (e.g., 43.5 and 0.40 in the Table 3; 2.0% and 30% in the Figure 6). It is necessary to correct the whole paper for accuracy and precision. And item 1 in conclusion is too general and appears to be not connected well to the presented results. Has the current problem been resolved, please either remove or be more specific. Minor grammatical problems in the full text need to be corrected.
  Response 5: (1) We have reviewed and revised all the figures and tables in the manuscript. The component content and its sum in Table 3 are expressed to one decimal place, while the component content ratio is expressed to two decimal places; The sum of component content in Figure 6 is expressed as a percentage, while the ratio of component content is expressed as a numerical value. (2) The first conclusion item in the manuscript has been supplemented. (3) The grammar of the manuscript has been checked and revised.
  4 Conclusions Lines 381-382
  “(1)…… It solves the current problem of fuzzy identification of the red beds.”
  
  Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590-AC1
RC2:
'Comment on egusphere-2023-2590', Anonymous Referee #2, 10 Apr 2024

Cui et al.'s research aimed to address the issues of slow recognition speed and inaccurate recognition results of red beds. Based on the correlation between red beds geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions, a rapid quantitative identification standard was established based on the basic chemical composition combination law of red beds. The research content of this manuscript is very interesting, the research methods are reasonable, and the research results are very valuable. However, there are still some minor issues with the manuscript. The following modifications are suggested for the manuscript to be published in this journal:

-Lines 28-30: After verifying the quantification criterion for red beds recognition, it is necessary to further explain the application scope or prospects of this criterion.
-Lines 76-77: The results of Moonjun et al. cited should be placed in Lines 51-52 to illustrate the relationship between geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions.
-Lines 88-90: The description of this sentence is not accurate. The data of red beds and other rocks not only comes from previous studies, but also from some database. It is recommended to modify or delete it.
-Lines 100-101: This statement regarding the relationship between geomorphic characteristics and mineral compositions should be explained before Lines 51-52.
-Lines 111-112: This statement regarding the relationship between chemical compositions and mineral compositions should be explained before Lines 51-52.
-Line 122: The "." in parentheses should be deleted, please check the entire text.
-Lines 164-168: After sampling, please explain the processing flow of the sample before conducting the test.
-Lines 201-202: It is necessary to clarify the specific meaning of "geomorphic characteristics " here.
-Lines 331-332: Here, it is necessary to provide a detailed explanation of what rocks "non red beds sedimentary rocks" refer to.
-Line 376: "by" should be changed to "in", please check the grammar of the entire text.

Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590-RC2
- AC2: 'Reply on RC2', Zhen Liu, 11 Apr 2024
  
  Cui et al.'s research aimed to address the issues of slow recognition speed and inaccurate recognition results of red beds. Based on the correlation between red beds geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions, a rapid quantitative identification standard was established based on the basic chemical composition combination law of red beds. The research content of this manuscript is very interesting, the research methods are reasonable, and the research results are very valuable. However, there are still some minor issues with the manuscript. The following modifications are suggested for the manuscript to be published in this journal:
  Response: Thank you very much for the reviewer's review. We have made revisions to the following issues item by item based on the feedback provided.
  
  -Lines 28-30: After verifying the quantification criterion for red beds recognition, it is necessary to further explain the application scope or prospects of this criterion.
  Response 1: The application scope and prospects of the quantification criterion for red beds recognition have been added in the last sentence of the abstract.
  Abstract
  “The study results can be used for rapid identification of red beds, achieving risk assessment and rapid response of geological disasters such as landslides.”
  
  -Lines 76-77: The results of Moonjun et al. cited should be placed in Lines 51-52 to illustrate the relationship between geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions.
  Response 2: This sentence has been revised and placed in the second paragraph of the Introduction.
  1 Introduction
  “And, there is a close relationship between these perspectives (Moonjun et al., 2017; Bankole et al., 2016; Perri et al., 2013).”
  
  -Lines 88-90: The description of this sentence is not accurate. The data of red beds and other rocks not only comes from previous studies, but also from some database. It is recommended to modify or delete it.
  Response 3: This sentence has been deleted from the manuscript.
  
  -Lines 100-101: This statement regarding the relationship between geomorphic characteristics and mineral compositions should be explained before Lines 51-52.
  Response 4: This sentence has been revised and placed in the second paragraph of the Introduction.
  1 Introduction
  “At present, the studies on red beds identification are mostly carried out from the perspectives of geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions (Cui et al., 2022; Zhou et al., 2021). And, there is a close relationship between these perspectives (Moonjun et al., 2017; Bankole et al., 2016; Perri et al., 2013).”
  
  -Lines 111-112: This statement regarding the relationship between chemical compositions and mineral compositions should be explained before Lines 51-52.
  Response 5: This sentence has been revised and placed in the second paragraph of the Introduction.
  1 Introduction
  “At present, the studies on red beds identification are mostly carried out from the perspectives of geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions (Cui et al., 2022; Zhou et al., 2021). And, there is a close relationship between these perspectives (Moonjun et al., 2017; Bankole et al., 2016; Perri et al., 2013). For example, the content of Fe₂O₃ or hematite in the red beds is higher than that in the grey beds (Hu et al., 2006).”
  
  -Line 122: The "." in parentheses should be deleted, please check the entire text.
  Response 6: All the "." in this paragraph have been removed.
  
  -Lines 164-168: After sampling, please explain the processing flow of the sample before conducting the test.
  Response 7: The process of conducting on-site testing on samples after sampling has been explained in the manuscript.
  2.2 Criterion verification
  “After on-site sampling, use a hammer to smash the rock block out of the fresh surface. Then, the fresh surface was analyzed using the MiX5 Pro handheld X-ray fluorescence element analyzer (Figure 3) from Sun Yat-sen University to check whether these elements conform to the basic chemical compositions combination rules of red beds proposed by this study.”
  
  -Lines 201-202: It is necessary to clarify the specific meaning of "geomorphic characteristics" here.
  Response 8: The specific meaning of "geometric characteristics" has been explained in detail in the manuscript.
  3.1 Geomorphic characteristics of red beds
  “Compared with the obvious layering and red appearance characteristics of red beds, igneous rocks and metamorphic rocks do not show the two characteristics of red appearance and bedding at the same time.”
  
  -Lines 331-332: Here, it is necessary to provide a detailed explanation of what rocks "non red beds sedimentary rocks" refer to.
  Response 9: The specific types of “non red beds sedimentary rocks” have been explained in detail in the manuscript.
  3.4 Red beds identification quantization criterion verification
  “There are some chemical composition combinations of the 3 non-red beds sedimentary rocks (limestone, arkose, and mudstone) that are outside the scope of the red beds quantitative criterion (the numbers in bold and underlined in the table).”
  
  -Line 376: "by" should be changed to "in", please check the grammar of the entire text.
  Response 10: The grammar of the manuscript has been checked and revised.
  
  Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590-AC2

Interactive discussion

Status: closed

RC1:
'Comment on egusphere-2023-2590', Anonymous Referee #1, 27 Mar 2024

The comment was uploaded in the form of a supplement: https://egusphere.copernicus.org/preprints/2024/egusphere-2023-2590/egusphere-2023-2590-RC1-supplement.pdf

Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590-RC1
- AC1: 'Reply on RC1', Zhen Liu, 07 Apr 2024
  
  Comments and Suggestions for Authors
  This study established a rapid quantitative identification criterion based on the basic chemical compositions combination rules in the red beds. The manuscript is well written and the topic is interesting and novel. By comparing the chemical composition combinations of 15 kinds of rocks collected from China in this study, it is proven that the quantitative criterion proposed in this study are effective. The work performed in the manuscript is comprehensive and in-depth. However, there are some minor problems that should be addressed before any further publication process.
  Response: Thank you very much for your review of this manuscript. The following are the revisions made to the manuscript one by one based on your comments.
  
  Required changes:
  Point 1: In fact, the second section on methods is very rich in content. It mentioned previous research on the comparison between red beds and other rocks. But in this chapter, whether this part of the content overlaps with the introduction. Please provide a reasonable explanation. Additionally, as this section is too lengthy, it is recommended to add a suitable flowchart to facilitate better reading for readers. In addition, in section 2.1, the principle and instrument photos of the handheld elemental analyzer appear slightly monotonous. A schematic diagram can be formed by combining its principle and instrument photos.
  Response 1: We have revised the last paragraph of 1 Introduction based on your suggestion and adjusted the content of the paragraph regarding to 2 Methods. For the convenience of readers to read better, adjust the position of Figure 1 to 2 Methods according to your suggestions. The schematic diagram of the handheld elemental analyzer has been added (Figure 3).
  1 Introduction Lines 74-78
  “Therefore, the purpose of this study to develop a quantitative criterion for quickly and accurately identifying the red beds. This study first collected the data about the geomorphic characteristics, mineral content, and chemical composition of red beds and other rocks, then compared these data to obtain the basic characteristics of red beds, and finally summarized and analyzed the red beds identification criterion and verified the reliability of this criterion.”
  2 Methods Lines 81-86
  “Figure 1 shows the methodology used in this study involving the investigation of geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions (the perspective of chemical compositions is the focus of this study). In this study, data on geomorphological features, mineral content and chemical composition of the red beds and other rocks were first collected, then these data were compared to derive the basic characteristics of the red beds, and finally the red bed identification criteria were summarized and analyzed, and the reliability of the criteria was verified.”
  2.2 Criterion verification Lines 178-184
  “The working principle of this instrument is that a miniature X-ray source provides tube voltage and tube current, and the light tube emits continuous X-ray spectral lines. The X-rays irradiated on the sample knock out the inner electrons of the K and L layers of the element atoms, and the holes in the low-energy layer are filled by high-energy outer electrons (N layer). The high-energy electrons emit excess energy as X-ray fluorescence (Ka) with elemental characteristics. Thus, the instrument detects the type and concentration of elements through the emitted spectral lines.”
  Figure 3. MiX5 Pro handheld X-ray fluorescence element analyzer.
  
  Point 2: In the third section of Results and Discussion, both sections 3.2 and 3.3 describe the results through tables or figures. In section 3.1, it was found that the geomorphic characteristics of the red beds were mainly described through literature review, and the content was not rich enough. Can appropriate figures or table data be added.
  Response 2: In Section 3.1, the identification of red beds is qualitatively explained by adding Figure 4 to illustrate the geomorphic characteristics of the red beds.
  Figure 4. Geomorphic characteristics of the red beds.
  
  Point 3: Some general recommendations regarding the presentation of contents. (1) figure 2. I suggest writing "Location of the study area" and, if possible, add a description of what there is in the photo. For example, can the sample be dispersed by adding a map of China. (2) In the research status of the introduction, it should take a positive attitude towards the previous research results on the whole and deny them praise. It could talk about advantages before disadvantages. (3) Do the colors in the small figures in Figures 4 and 5 represent the same type of rock? Please make a note or add a picture frame in the image. (4) Can Table 3 also be presented in the form of an interval graph, and then 15 types of rocks can be scattered in this interval for intuitive judgment and verification.
  Response 3: (1) Sample locations have been added to Figure 2 and labeled on the map of China. (2) The Introduction provides a positive evaluation of previous achievements and points out the research that still needs to be carried out in this manuscript. (3) The same legend in Figures 4 and 5 represents the same type of rock, as explained in the figure title. (4) Table 3 has been modified to indicate the differences between these rocks and the red layer through orange shading.
  Figure 2. Distribution areas of red beds in China and sampling locations for 15 types of rocks.
  1 Introduction Lines 59-61
  “At this stage, the research on the geomorphology, mineral color and clay content of the red beds lays the foundation for the identification of the red beds, but this identification is still vague and needs to be further quantified.”
  Figure 6. Comparison of (a) SiO₂ and Al₂O₃, (b) FeO and Fe₂O₃, (c) K₂O and Na₂O, (d) CaO and MgO contents in red beds, igneous rock, and metamorphic rocks, respectively. (Note: Icons of the same color in the figure have the same meanings)
  
  Point 4: Problems in the tables and figures in the manuscript. Please carefully check the accuracy of the units and formats of all tables and figures. Such as, the format of each tables and figures needs to be consistent before and after.
  Response 4: We have standardized the format of all figures and tables in the manuscript based on your suggestions.
  
  Point 5: Some general recommendations regarding the contents of the paper. I found that the authors do not use the unified and correct significant figures and decimals in the whole paper (e.g., 43.5 and 0.40 in the Table 3; 2.0% and 30% in the Figure 6). It is necessary to correct the whole paper for accuracy and precision. And item 1 in conclusion is too general and appears to be not connected well to the presented results. Has the current problem been resolved, please either remove or be more specific. Minor grammatical problems in the full text need to be corrected.
  Response 5: (1) We have reviewed and revised all the figures and tables in the manuscript. The component content and its sum in Table 3 are expressed to one decimal place, while the component content ratio is expressed to two decimal places; The sum of component content in Figure 6 is expressed as a percentage, while the ratio of component content is expressed as a numerical value. (2) The first conclusion item in the manuscript has been supplemented. (3) The grammar of the manuscript has been checked and revised.
  4 Conclusions Lines 381-382
  “(1)…… It solves the current problem of fuzzy identification of the red beds.”
  
  Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590-AC1
RC2:
'Comment on egusphere-2023-2590', Anonymous Referee #2, 10 Apr 2024

Cui et al.'s research aimed to address the issues of slow recognition speed and inaccurate recognition results of red beds. Based on the correlation between red beds geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions, a rapid quantitative identification standard was established based on the basic chemical composition combination law of red beds. The research content of this manuscript is very interesting, the research methods are reasonable, and the research results are very valuable. However, there are still some minor issues with the manuscript. The following modifications are suggested for the manuscript to be published in this journal:

-Lines 28-30: After verifying the quantification criterion for red beds recognition, it is necessary to further explain the application scope or prospects of this criterion.
-Lines 76-77: The results of Moonjun et al. cited should be placed in Lines 51-52 to illustrate the relationship between geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions.
-Lines 88-90: The description of this sentence is not accurate. The data of red beds and other rocks not only comes from previous studies, but also from some database. It is recommended to modify or delete it.
-Lines 100-101: This statement regarding the relationship between geomorphic characteristics and mineral compositions should be explained before Lines 51-52.
-Lines 111-112: This statement regarding the relationship between chemical compositions and mineral compositions should be explained before Lines 51-52.
-Line 122: The "." in parentheses should be deleted, please check the entire text.
-Lines 164-168: After sampling, please explain the processing flow of the sample before conducting the test.
-Lines 201-202: It is necessary to clarify the specific meaning of "geomorphic characteristics " here.
-Lines 331-332: Here, it is necessary to provide a detailed explanation of what rocks "non red beds sedimentary rocks" refer to.
-Line 376: "by" should be changed to "in", please check the grammar of the entire text.

Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590-RC2
- AC2: 'Reply on RC2', Zhen Liu, 11 Apr 2024
  
  Cui et al.'s research aimed to address the issues of slow recognition speed and inaccurate recognition results of red beds. Based on the correlation between red beds geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions, a rapid quantitative identification standard was established based on the basic chemical composition combination law of red beds. The research content of this manuscript is very interesting, the research methods are reasonable, and the research results are very valuable. However, there are still some minor issues with the manuscript. The following modifications are suggested for the manuscript to be published in this journal:
  Response: Thank you very much for the reviewer's review. We have made revisions to the following issues item by item based on the feedback provided.
  
  -Lines 28-30: After verifying the quantification criterion for red beds recognition, it is necessary to further explain the application scope or prospects of this criterion.
  Response 1: The application scope and prospects of the quantification criterion for red beds recognition have been added in the last sentence of the abstract.
  Abstract
  “The study results can be used for rapid identification of red beds, achieving risk assessment and rapid response of geological disasters such as landslides.”
  
  -Lines 76-77: The results of Moonjun et al. cited should be placed in Lines 51-52 to illustrate the relationship between geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions.
  Response 2: This sentence has been revised and placed in the second paragraph of the Introduction.
  1 Introduction
  “And, there is a close relationship between these perspectives (Moonjun et al., 2017; Bankole et al., 2016; Perri et al., 2013).”
  
  -Lines 88-90: The description of this sentence is not accurate. The data of red beds and other rocks not only comes from previous studies, but also from some database. It is recommended to modify or delete it.
  Response 3: This sentence has been deleted from the manuscript.
  
  -Lines 100-101: This statement regarding the relationship between geomorphic characteristics and mineral compositions should be explained before Lines 51-52.
  Response 4: This sentence has been revised and placed in the second paragraph of the Introduction.
  1 Introduction
  “At present, the studies on red beds identification are mostly carried out from the perspectives of geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions (Cui et al., 2022; Zhou et al., 2021). And, there is a close relationship between these perspectives (Moonjun et al., 2017; Bankole et al., 2016; Perri et al., 2013).”
  
  -Lines 111-112: This statement regarding the relationship between chemical compositions and mineral compositions should be explained before Lines 51-52.
  Response 5: This sentence has been revised and placed in the second paragraph of the Introduction.
  1 Introduction
  “At present, the studies on red beds identification are mostly carried out from the perspectives of geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions (Cui et al., 2022; Zhou et al., 2021). And, there is a close relationship between these perspectives (Moonjun et al., 2017; Bankole et al., 2016; Perri et al., 2013). For example, the content of Fe₂O₃ or hematite in the red beds is higher than that in the grey beds (Hu et al., 2006).”
  
  -Line 122: The "." in parentheses should be deleted, please check the entire text.
  Response 6: All the "." in this paragraph have been removed.
  
  -Lines 164-168: After sampling, please explain the processing flow of the sample before conducting the test.
  Response 7: The process of conducting on-site testing on samples after sampling has been explained in the manuscript.
  2.2 Criterion verification
  “After on-site sampling, use a hammer to smash the rock block out of the fresh surface. Then, the fresh surface was analyzed using the MiX5 Pro handheld X-ray fluorescence element analyzer (Figure 3) from Sun Yat-sen University to check whether these elements conform to the basic chemical compositions combination rules of red beds proposed by this study.”
  
  -Lines 201-202: It is necessary to clarify the specific meaning of "geomorphic characteristics" here.
  Response 8: The specific meaning of "geometric characteristics" has been explained in detail in the manuscript.
  3.1 Geomorphic characteristics of red beds
  “Compared with the obvious layering and red appearance characteristics of red beds, igneous rocks and metamorphic rocks do not show the two characteristics of red appearance and bedding at the same time.”
  
  -Lines 331-332: Here, it is necessary to provide a detailed explanation of what rocks "non red beds sedimentary rocks" refer to.
  Response 9: The specific types of “non red beds sedimentary rocks” have been explained in detail in the manuscript.
  3.4 Red beds identification quantization criterion verification
  “There are some chemical composition combinations of the 3 non-red beds sedimentary rocks (limestone, arkose, and mudstone) that are outside the scope of the red beds quantitative criterion (the numbers in bold and underlined in the table).”
  
  -Line 376: "by" should be changed to "in", please check the grammar of the entire text.
  Response 10: The grammar of the manuscript has been checked and revised.
  
  Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2023-2590-AC2

Peer review completion

AR: Author's response | RR: Referee report | ED: Editor decision | EF: Editorial file upload

AR by Zhen Liu on behalf of the Authors (22 Apr 2024) Author's response Author's tracked changes

EF by Lorena Grabowski (24 Apr 2024) Manuscript

ED: Reconsider after major revisions (06 May 2024) by Andrea Di Muro

The authors have performed an extensive review of literature data on sedimentary “red beds” in order to highlight their mineralogical and chemical signature, with respect to global databases on igneous, metamorphic and sedimentary rocks. The review shows that the “red beds” span a huge range in mineralogical and chemical composition. In terms of major elements, the most distinctive feature is the high Fe2O3/FeO ratio and the low Na2O/K2O ratio;
However, as correctly acknowledged by the authors, XRF (hand held or lab) does not permit to quantify the iron oxidation state and this technique has very poor precision on light elements like Na2O. This make the application of the in situ analysis very tricky/impossible, as the main discriminant factors cannot be quantified by XRF;
The analysis is very preliminary and based on basic statistics of rock composition in terms of major elements. More complete statistical analysis (for instance, PCA) could permit better to quantify the combination of major elements potentially specific of these rocks, in spite of their highly variable signature. Moreover, trace elements or other chemical signatures (stable isotopes) might result to be more reliable to identify red beds, for instance;
In spite of the above-mentioned critical limitations of the current study, the two reviews have resulted in surprisingly minor modifications of the initial submission and cannot be considered as conclusive.
I suggest paper re-submission after substantial modification (statistical data treatment; discussion on the in situ measurement of Fe2O3 and Na2O) of the current version of the paper;

Minor remarks
Linz 143 and Figure 2 « Mudstone » instead of « Mudtone »
Table 1 and Table 2 : add to the caption “from literature data”
Table 3 : red beds need to be identified in the caption or in the table and discriminated with respect to the other rocks.

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AR by Zhen Liu on behalf of the Authors (28 May 2024) Author's response Author's tracked changes

EF by Lorena Grabowski (30 May 2024) Manuscript

ED: Referee Nomination & Report Request started (25 Jun 2024) by Andrea Di Muro

RR by Anonymous Referee #1 (27 Jun 2024)

ED: Publish as is (02 Aug 2024) by Andrea Di Muro

ED: Publish as is (07 Aug 2024) by Andrea Di Muro (Executive editor)

AR by Zhen Liu on behalf of the Authors (08 Aug 2024) Manuscript

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20 Sep 2024

Basic chemical composition combination rules and quantitative criterion of red beds

Guangjun Cui, Jin Liao, Linghua Kong, Cuiying Zhou, Zhen Liu, Lei Yu, and Lihai Zhang

Solid Earth, 15, 1185–1201, https://doi.org/10.5194/se-15-1185-2024,https://doi.org/10.5194/se-15-1185-2024, 2024

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Guangjun Cui, Jin Liao, Linghua Kong, Cuiying Zhou, Zhen Liu, Lei Yu, and Lihai Zhang

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Guangjun Cui, Jin Liao, Linghua Kong, Cuiying Zhou, Zhen Liu, Lei Yu, and Lihai Zhang

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A rapid quantitative identification criterion based on the basic chemical compositions combination rules of red beds has been established, taking into account the correlation between red beds geomorphic characteristics, mineral compositions, and chemical compositions. The research results can also be applied to the quantitative identification of red beds in other fields such as resources, ecology, environment, energy, materials, etc.


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Basic chemical compositions combination rules and quantitative criterion of red beds

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