the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
Mobility of dry granular debris flows over erodible beds: Experimental insights into the influence of flow–bed inertia
Abstract. Debris-flow mobility responds sensitively to erosion and entrainment that exchange mass and momentum across the flow-bed interface. Yet, the mechanical controls that cause some debris flows to accelerate during erosion while others decelerate are insufficiently understood. Recent theory attributes this divergent behavior to inertial contrasts between the moving mass and the erodible bed, suggesting that incorporating inertially weaker, neutral, or stronger substrate into the flow enhances, maintains, or reduces flow mobility, respectively. Here, we conducted flume experiments and surface-based measurements to assess how the inertia of the erodible bed affects the flow kinematics, erosion, entrainment, and runout of dry granular single-phase debris flows. We systematically imposed inertial contrasts by releasing a quartz slide of constant solid density over erodible beds with lower, equal, and higher solid densities representing inertially weak, neutral, and strong scenarios, and compare these alongside a reference case without erosion. Each scenario was repeated for fine sand and a sand-gravel mixture. Our results reveal consistent behavior across both particle-size distributions. Debris flows over low-density beds exhibit higher apparent mean erosion rates, faster flow fronts before deposition, and longer runout lengths, whereas flows over equal- and high-density beds evolve similarly, with shallower erosion, slower flow fronts, and shorter, more compact deposits. Relative to the neutral scenario, the entrainment of low-density material thus appears to enhance debris-flow mobility, while incorporating high-density material does not lead to the anticipated mobility loss. This asymmetric response suggests that solid-density contrasts alone are insufficient to explain the observed trends under the experimental conditions considered here. Differences in particle shape and internal friction likely also contribute. Whereas the low-density bed comprises more spherical particles with a lower friction angle facilitating entrainment, the equal- and high-density beds consist of angular particles with similar and higher internal friction angles, leading apparently to similar resistance to erosion despite their divergent densities. However, resolving whether more subtle differences persist between the inertial scenarios will require direct observations at the flow-bed interface to capture grain-scale dynamics and temporal variability in erosion intensity.
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Status: final response (author comments only)
- CC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2026-1235', Lonneke Roelofs, 26 Mar 2026
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CC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2026-1235', Hervé Vicari, 30 Apr 2026
Please find my comments attached.
Recommendation to the Editor: The manuscript by Wetterauer et al. presents an interesting experimental dataset on erosion of dry granular flows over beds of differing densities. The experiments themselves appear valuable. However, the manuscript interprets the results within the framework of Pudasaini and Krautblatter (2021), which Issler et al. (2024, Nature Communications, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-48605-6) showed to be incorrectly derived and to violate momentum and energy conservation. In my attached review, I explain why this mechanical interpretation is not valid.
My concern is not merely academic. If Pudasaini and Krautblatter (2021) were retained in a journal such as NHESS as a valid mechanistic basis for interpreting erosion experiments, this could further legitimize and encourage its implementation and use in numerical tools for landslide simulation and hazard mapping. Because the model is mechanically incorrect, such use could lead to erroneous predictions, with potentially serious consequences for hazard assessment and public safety.
For this reason, I do not believe that the manuscript can be accepted in its current form. That said, I do believe the experimental results could still form the basis of a useful contribution if the authors were to remove reliance on the Pudasaini and Krautblatter model from their interpretative framework. The manuscript could then be reconsidered on the basis of the dataset and a revised physical interpretation.
Given the history of this issue, and because I am not an official referee for this manuscript and may not be given the opportunity to comment on any eventual reply, I urge the Editor to assess with particular caution any response to my comments that argues in favor of the validity of the Pudasaini and Krautblatter model. The invalidity of that model was already examined during the review of our Matters Arising paper (Issler et al., 2024). If the Editor wishes to seek an additional opinion, I would strongly recommend consulting a reviewer with recognized expertise in continuum mechanics and depth-averaged modeling of geophysical mass flows, for example Richard M. Iverson (USGS), Nico Gray (University of Manchester), Dieter Issler (NGI), Peter Gauer (NGI), Johan Gaume (ETHZ), Anne Mangeney (IPGP), Thierry Faug (INRAE), or Christophe Ancey (EPFL).
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2026-1235', Anonymous Referee #1, 10 May 2026
This study addresses an important and timely question in debris flow research, namely, how the inertial contrast between a flowing mass and an erodible bed influences erosion, entrainment, and runout mobility. The experimental approach is systematic and well-conceived in its basic structure, testing three inertial scenarios alongside a reference case and repeating each experiment three times to assess reproducibility. The finding that solid density contrast alone is insufficient to explain observed mobility patterns, and that particle shape and internal friction play important and previously underappreciated roles, is a scientifically valuable contribution that deserves attention from the debris flow and granular flow communities.
Despite my comments, the reviewer recognizes the originality and potential value of this experimental contribution. With careful revision addressing the scientific, structural, and linguistic issues outlined in the specific comments in the attached PDF, this manuscript could make a meaningful contribution to the understanding of erosion-driven debris flow mobility.
- RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2026-1235', Hervé Vicari, 21 May 2026
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CC3: 'Comment on egusphere-2026-1235', Dieter Issler, 28 May 2026
This manuscript describes, analyzes and discusses chute experiments on granular flows over erodible beds of different bulk densities with the goal of testing the erosion theory of Pudasaini and Krautblatter (Nat. Comm. 12, 6793, 2021, henceforth called PK). In CC2 and RC2, Hervé Vicari pointed out that Issler et al. (Nat. Comm. 15, 4613, 2024) demonstrated that the results of PK hinge critically on counting the particle-borne momentum flux from the bed to the flow twice. If this error is corrected, the conclusions in PK revert to the standard formulation that has been known for decades.
This situation implies that the the present manuscript uses an interpretative framework that is not mathematically consistent. Accordingly, Vicari posits that all references to PK need to be removed and the discussion of the results reformulated before publication. I fully support Vicari's statement and also agree with him and the Reviewer #1 that the experiments described in the manuscript are interesting, valuable and do not depend on the interpretative framework of PK in any essential way. It should therefore be fairly straightforward to reformulate the analysis and discussion parts of the manuscript with an emphasis on the mass, momentum and energy balances and the associated stresses. There is hardly anything to add to Vicari's thorough and detailed review, but perhaps a few remarks from a different perspective could be useful in the revision of the paper.
- It would be helpful if the authors could summarize early on in which respect their experiments differ from other, similar experiments.
- In my opinion, the emphasis on inertia in this context is problematic. The notion has a history spanning more than two millennia (see the Wikipedia article for an interesting summary) and played an important conceptual role in the Theory of Relativity, yet it has not been linked to a measurable physical quantity. Perhaps a vague description like "the property of a body causing it to maintain its velocity in the absence of external forces acting on it" comes close to the essence of the concept. In contrast, PK and the present manuscript seem to oscillate between identifying inertia with bulk density or momentum density. If the authors want to use the term inertia, they need to define it unambiguously (and preferably in line with conventional usage). In my opinion, it would be best to eschew it in favor of a well-defined, measurable quantity.
- There are many passages throughout the manuscript where the authors mention important aspects of the experiments, like the effect of particle shape, the stability and shear strength of the erodible bed, and the energetics of entrainment. These are key elements that need to be analyzed carefully and quantitatively where possible if one wishes to understand the experimental results. In the present version, these questions are discussed mostly where some discrepancy between PK theory and the experimental results was encountered. Instead, it would be preferable to start from these aspects of the experiments and discuss what their consequences are. This should help in distinguishing between firm conclusions, plausible inferences and conjectures.
- It should be quite illuminating to clearly state (and if possible quantify) the connections between the entrainment rate , the mass balance and the momentum balance. An almost trivial but important point is that, in these experiments, the entrainable material is initially at rest and therefore does not increase the flow momentum when it is entrained. As the eroded material must be accelerated to the mean flow velocity or a fraction thereof, the entraining flow will accelerate less (or decelerate more) compared to the situation without entrainment (as has been known for a long time). Conversely, the entrainment rate is limited by the excess of the flow shear stress over the bed shear strength. For the granular materials used here, the shear strength can be estimated in terms of the difference between internal friction angle and slope angle and the bed-normal load. From the experiments without erodible bed, it should be possible to estimate the bed friction and to check whether the mass and momentum balances of the flow work out with the estimated entrainment rates. If the flow decelerated less than estimated, it could mean that the entrainment rate was lower than expected or that the eroded material is not thoroughly mixed into the flow but remains near the bed with lower velocity. Stronger deceleration could indicate deep failure of the substrate, i.e., a sudden, very high erosion rate; this could occur in the case of the Glass substrate since it is only meta-stable and is likely to fail throughout its depth once disturbed by the flow.
- It is intriguing that entrainment has a decelerating effect on the flow, yet entraining flows can be significantly more mobile than non-entraining ones. Perhaps one could shed some light on this with one or two series of tests without entrainment, using mixtures of quartz and glass, and of quartz and magnetite. The fraction of glass or magnetite mass could be chosen to roughly correspond to the entrained mass in the reported experiments. In this way, the effect of the erosion and entrainment process on the momentum can be separated from the effect of the density and shape differences as well as the poly-dispersity.
I wish the authors success in the revision process and look forward to seeing the revised paper published.
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2026-1235-CC3
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This is very interesting work. I really appreciate the careful comparison between the experimental trends presented in the paper and the trends predicted by models. After reading point (ii) in your conclusion I am trying to figure out if solid density would be able to explain all observed mobility and runout patterns if the grain shape in your inertially weak scenarios would be similar to those in the inertially neutral and strong scenarios.