the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
Complex interplay of forcings drives Indian vegetation and summer monsoon variability during MIS 11
Abstract. Marine Isotope Stage (MIS) 11 has long been considered a unique Quaternary interglacial due to its orbital similarities with the Holocene, persistence of high atmospheric CO₂ concentrations and extended duration triggering unusual polar ice-sheet loss. Despite its importance, Indian summer monsoon (ISM) variability within the core monsoon zone (CMZ), as well as its impacts on vulnerable tropical forests, remain unexplored. Here, we document, for the first time, MIS 11 ISM-driven vegetation changes and their underlying forcings by combining pollen analysis from IODP Site U1446, strategically retrieved from the Bay of Bengal to represent the CMZ, with model simulations. Our results reveal the distinct roles of insolation, CO₂, ice volume, and millennial-scale variability in driving coupled ISM-vegetation changes, depending on the changing boundary conditions through MIS 11. Orbital- and millennial-scale tropical forest changes mirror southern European vegetation and atmospheric methane variability, ultimately reflecting shifts in the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) that impact the tropical regions, a primary source of CH₄ emissions.
Our proxy and model reconstructions show that ISM-vegetation changes during MIS 11c closely followed boreal summer insolation, revealing its dominant role under warm background conditions with high CO₂ and reduced ice volume. Conversely, during MIS 11b-a, ISM-vegetation decreased while insolation remained high, indicating that its influence was overshadowed by expanding ice sheets, lower CO₂, and the interaction of orbital and millennial-scale variations. Millennial-scale climate variability during the younger MIS 11b-a substages is expressed by prominent forest contractions tied to southward ITCZ shifts, Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC) reductions and high-latitude ice sheet dynamics, which were rapidly followed by abrupt forest expansions associated with northward ITCZ shifts, AMOC strengthening and CH₄ overshoots. Conspicuously, the first and most severe forest setback interrupted MIS 11 full interglacial conditions, suggesting that extreme ISM weakening could also occur under similarly warm future conditions. Our findings provide new insights into ISM behavior during MIS 11, highlighting its high sensitivity to climate changes in the context of projected ISM intensification and its effect on the extent and composition of the tropical forest, which is key component of both global carbon and methane cycles.
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2024-3341', Anonymous Referee #1, 18 Dec 2024
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This article is a high-quality piece of work with some important new data spanning an interesting climatic transition with material being delivered from central India and providing critical new constraints on the development of environment during interglacial periods within the core monsoon area. I believe that it is worthy of publication but it will need some rewriting before it could be accepted. I actually found the paper really difficult to follow and understand. The writing is very dense and there is so much use of abbreviations that it makes it very difficult to follow. Not everyone is going to be as familiar with all these abbreviations as the authors and I found their use obstructive to my understanding of the manuscript. I’m sure the data is a good quality and if I understood this correctly it suggests that during warm periods there was a greater prevalence of tropical forest in central India compared to other times but that the intensity of the Indian monsoon and the vegetation is regulated by orbital processes but also the extent of ice sheets in high latitudes. One of the other things that stopped me understanding the manuscript more fully was the use of the MIS stages rather than telling me whether it’s warmer or a colder period. Again, the number of the stages and sub stages are probably very familiar to the author but not to all the readers and I think it might be helpful if they were to try and better describe what each provide more information about what each stage number means. The authors assume too much prior knowledge. I was a little confused about the comparison of the climate model and the data itself. The conclusion appeared to be that the model wasn’t very good unless you accounted also for glacial variations which at least in my reading suggests at the model isn’t that good and so I wonder why so much time was spent discussing the results. I provide here below a number of smaller editorial comments and questions to help improve the understanding of the manuscript.
Line 18 - Marine Isotope Stage (MIS) 11 - Should say how old this is in ka
Line 20 - core monsoon zone (CMZ) -What is that?
Line 28 - MIS 11c - Again, we need the ages of these substages
Line 36 - ISM weakening could also occur under similarly warm future conditions – Triggered by what? Be specific
Line 43 - Core Monsoon Zone (CMZ) – Label this on a map
Line 73 – IODP – Define abbreviation. And SST
Line 79 - during MIS 5e - provide age in ka
Line 101 - Integrated Ocean Drilling Program (IODP)- Say this on first use
Line 106 - LOVECLIM Earth System Model – Need a reference here
Line 111 - δ18Ob – Superscript “18”. Is “b” right?
Line 140 - rapid delivery of continental material – Depends what you mean by “rapid”. Could be a whole 100 ky glacial cycle for coarse grained sediment. There is likely buffering in the flood plain for fine material including the pollen.
Figure 1 - Text in inset North Atlantic map needs to have the same font as the rest of the figure. Text needs to be larger.
Line 154 - A total of 62 levels were sampled for pollen analysis, - A total of 62 samples were taken for pollen analysis
Line 163 - main sum - I’m not quite sure what this means
Line 163 - excluding Himalayan taxa – Why are there Himalayan taxa in the sample. Is the sediment really from the Mahanadi or perhaps the Ganges?
Line 171 - tropical forest (TF) - Not sure this abbreviation is necessary
Line 174 - tropical forest (TF) – If you are going to abbreviate you only need to define this once.
Line 185 - primary indicator of ISM rainfall variability - But the monsoon is seasonal. Couldn’t this be found in a tropical, non-seasonal environment?
Line 189 - Fig. 4 - Call out figures in numerical order
Line 196 - over the India's CMZ (17°-27.5° N, 67.5°-90° E) - over the Indian CMZ. Also mark this on the map figure.
Figure 2 – This chart is very hard to read.
Line 231 - abundance tropical deciduous forest – abundance of tropical deciduous forest
Line 238 - increasing dryness. – and seasonality?
Line 241 - Site U1446 shows a gradual TF decline- pollen from Site U1446 shows a gradual TF decline
Line 246 - PZ MIS 11a-1, - You use too many abbreviations. I already forgot what PZ means
Line 250 - substantial less humid condition - substantially less humid conditions
Line 250 - The two forest expansion - What does that mean?
Line 258 - decrease of 22.3% - decrease to 22.3%?
Line 296 - long records – long duration records
Line 300 - unusually high global terrestrial biosphere – Not sure what this means
Line 305 - contribution of tropical forests to the global terrestrial biosphere - you did not estimate volumes of forest or the volumes of carbon that would be captured by the forest so I don’t think you really understand what proportion of the global budget this represents.
Line 314 - asymmetric “M-shaped” structure – I’m unclear about what you mean. Are you talking about the shape of proxy record? Which one in particular?
Line 325 - EDC ice core – what does EDC mean? And where was this core taken?
Line 327 - imprint on the CH4 record - what record are you talking about? What is a proxy for methane?
Line 339 - tropical wetland extent – how can a speleothem record tell you about the extent of wetlands?
Line 343 – speleothem data alone cannot be used as a definitive proxy - or that these data indicate complicated hydrological system
Figure 5 - I suggest you use different colours when you’re plotting two sets of data on the same plot. Using two shades of blue is a little confusing. Why don’t you just use something more distinctive?
Line 381 - The asymmetric M-shaped pattern – I don’t know what you mean. You’re going to need to label that quite clearly on one of your figures.
Line 386 – NHSI - This is a confusing abbreviation. If you told us what it was earlier in the manuscript, then I’ve already forgotten. I suggest you don’t use this.
Line 395 - gradually declines - gradually declined
Line 426 - the absence of ice-sheet forcing and associated freshwater flux in the simulations - this seems like a major omission to me. Is it necessary to ignore the ice sheets in the model? Seems like a bad model.
Line 444 - Yongxing Cave -but that is east Asian monsoon and not entirely clear that it’s appropriate.
Line 448 - MIS 11c optimum in southern Europe – I don’t understand. Site U1446 and the Yongxing Cave are both not in Europe
Line 472 - involves distinct in-cave processes – also, they may be issues related to regional rainfall patterns
Line 483 – soutprashern - Spelling
Line 492 - monsoon Hadley circulation patterns – I don’t understand. Monsoon circulation is exactly the opposite of Hadley circulation at least in South Asia.
Line 498 - still highly discussed - strongly debated? Controversial?
Line 505 - carbon dioxide jumps (CDJ) - this is entirely inappropriate. You have far too many abbreviations. The manuscript is extremely hard to read anyway without you adding this. Nobody understands these abbreviations when there are so many..
Line 503 - DO-like - More confusion
Line 526 - Ice-Rafted Detritus (IRD) - Please stop
Line 541 - the asymmetric M-shaped pattern in our tropical forest record -I never really understood what you meant by this.
Line 548 - IN the CH₄ record - IN?
Line 555 - CH₄ overshoots – I don’t understand what that means
Citation: https://doi.org/10.5194/egusphere-2024-3341-RC1
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